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Wrenching for a Livin'
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Discussion Starter #1
I went down to a machine shop a buddy of mine suggested to get a price on doing the machine work to my 351 block and balancing the rotating assembly. I asked him about maybe locating a 351 roller block or converting mine to a roller block. He said locating a roller block would be pretty difficult (i def. agree) and he recommended the crane retrofit lifters for non-roller blocks that summit sells:
http://store.summitracing.com/egnse...arch&DDS=1&searchinresults=false&N=0&y=1&x=26
These things are 425 bucks....thats dips into my wallet a bit.

He also said that it *MAY* be possible to convert my block over to a roller block, and that he had done it to a 302 before. He is going to find out and call me sometime this week....

Now i started doing my research when i got home...

A non-roller block with the retrofit lifters will allow me to use prettymuch any roller 351 cam i want in my motor, but i have to drop the 425 bucks for them.

I also read that you can just drill and tap the block for the bolts for the spider and get the spider and dog bones and stock roller lifters and then use a small base circle cam and everything would be ok. Could i just get some type of aftermarket roller lifters and use any cam?

Then i read a few other posts various places that said something to the effect that the non roller 351w block's lifter...holes(for lack of the right word) were not tall enough to accomodate regular roller lifter and keep them oiled right. (I think this is what was being said, i lost the the link and can't seem to find it)

So.....yeah, to say the least im a little confused at this point. Is any of this stuff right?
 

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broncofied
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Yes it is right converting is easy to drill and tap for the lifter spider here is one thing you'll need. Look at the notes at the bottom of the paragraph about lifters see it'll help you out if you let it.

Which guides you over here. Here are the conversion lifters.

http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=5937

Good cam choices i recommend the E303 it's got more lift less duration equals better street usage. It's what i'm putting in my 84' Here soon. You'll need a little bit of a stall converter. Not much.

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stor...goryId=17979&parentCategoryId=10707&langId=-1

Now that's alot of money for your cam and lifters so here is what i recommend. There is no doubt a roller cam is awesome however this is what i would do if i was you.

Scroll down to part number 249-cl35-235-3
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stor...goryId=16033&parentCategoryId=10707&langId=-1
that would be a good cam for your truck my opinion just with a 1,000 stall converter.

Use this valve spring kit look for. 270-36308-01

Then you can get rollers here.
You could convert them and not get the roller tips.
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stor...goryId=16559&parentCategoryId=11509&langId=-1
Or get full rollers
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stor...goryId=29415&parentCategoryId=10231&langId=-1

By the way how you been Magnum? Haven't seen you in a while??

There is my opinion though
 

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Wrenching for a Livin'
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6,949 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
MANNY said:
Yes it is right converting is easy to drill and tap for the lifter spider here is one thing you'll need. Look at the notes at the bottom of the paragraph about lifters see it'll help you out if you let it.

Which guides you over here. Here are the conversion lifters.

http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=5937
So your saying in order to even run the retrofit roller lifters i still need to drill and tap the 2 holes for the spider and get the spider and dog bones assembly? I was under the impression that i just needed those special lifters for a non roller block, but im really confused at this point. If i get the dog bone and sipder asbly. do i still need the retorfit lifters? if so Why?

MANNY said:
Good cam choices i recommend the E303 it's got more lift less duration equals better street usage. It's what i'm putting in my 84' Here soon. You'll need a little bit of a stall converter. Not much.

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stor...goryId=17979&parentCategoryId=10707&langId=-1

Now that's alot of money for your cam and lifters so here is what i recommend. There is no doubt a roller cam is awesome however this is what i would do if i was you.

Scroll down to part number 249-cl35-235-3
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stor...goryId=16033&parentCategoryId=10707&langId=-1
that would be a good cam for your truck my opinion just with a 1,000 stall converter.

Use this valve spring kit look for. 270-36308-01

Then you can get rollers here.
You could convert them and not get the roller tips.
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stor...goryId=16559&parentCategoryId=11509&langId=-1
Or get full rollers
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stor...goryId=29415&parentCategoryId=10231&langId=-1
I def. understand how much it is gonna be to run a roller cam, but it really opens up cam choices and frees up a LOT of power....see my desktop dyno file in this thread: http://fullsizebronco.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57206&highlight=motor+info
413 Horse @ 5 Grand, 529 ft/lbs @ 2500RPM's

*edit-i just came to the stupid realization that that particular cam i used in desktop dyno is for a 351c or modified, not a windsor....back to drawing board again.

MANNY said:
By the way how you been Magnum? Haven't seen you in a while??

There is my opinion though
I've been researching engine stuff a lot lately, but i've been around....i guess you missed my Cylinder Head Thread Turns out i made another fatal error in my compression ratio calculations and had to return the pistons i bought. Heh, i guess I'll get it right sometime

Thanks
Josh
 

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broncofied
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Error on mannys behalve my bad

ConversionLifters No spider.

Stock style lifter spider.

That will make it simpler

Yeah don't worry i had to build 7 engines before i really got it right and i still don't know it all Just don't overkill it:thumbup :rockon
 

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Wrenching for a Livin'
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Discussion Starter #5

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Wrenching for a Livin'
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Discussion Starter #6
bump....

if i get the spider and dog bones.....do i need a special cam? I keep reading conflicting reports from different places
 

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aka: kemicalburns
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dont run the E303 in a truck. there are fare better cams out there
 

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The Anti Yam!
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22,674 Posts
1. An E303 is a poor choice for a heavy truck.

2. You cannot run factory ford roller lifters in a non roller block, the lifter boses are not tall enugh.

3. The crane conversion lifters still require a small base circle cam.

summitracing.com said:
Want to run a roller cam and roller lifters in your non-roller 221-302, 351W, Boss 302, or 351 Cleveland? It’s as simple as getting a Crane Retrofit Roller Lifter Installation Kit and matching camshaft. The kit doesn’t require any machining of the block— just drop the stuff in and you have yourself a roller cam setup. The installation kit includes hydraulic roller lifters, special lifter guidebars, a guidebar hold-down plate (also called the spider), reinforcing bar, and hardware. You will need to get one of Crane’s retrofit cams; they have an extra-small base circle that makes the swap work. You’ll also need longer pushrods and a steel or bronze distributor drive gear, which Crane also has available. Take a look and see just how easy this swap is.
Clicky to read artical
Read that artical

4. Yes, the conversion is expensive and so is the small base circle cam.
$425.00 for lifters, $239.00 for the small base circle cam, total for cam = $664.00 (+/-)

That is the only reason I am running a flat tappet cam. Cam + lifters where less than $170.00.
My Cam Specs
 

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Wrenching for a Livin'
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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for the information Gack, that is exactly what i was looking for. That just cleared up about all the questions i had

So if i find a roller 351w block i can pick any roller 351w cam i want to go in it right?
 

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The Anti Yam!
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magnumpi said:
Thanks for the information Gack, that is exactly what i was looking for. That just cleared up about all the questions i had

So if i find a roller 351w block i can pick any roller 351w cam i want to go in it right?
Correct, any standard 302H.O/351w roller cam.
:thumbup

(you cant use the special smaller base circle retro fit ones)
 

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magnumpi said:
Thanks for the information Gack, that is exactly what i was looking for. That just cleared up about all the questions i had

So if i find a roller 351w block i can pick any roller 351w cam i want to go in it right?
I have one up in Hickory that needs a rebuild, out of a 92 Bronco. $125:thumbup
 

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The 351W roller block was not made until 94. Franklin if you have a 94 351W block for sale for $125, I would send money ASAP!!!!!!
 

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Well I KNOW it is out of a 92, the roller part I THOUGHT started in 91 for the 351. Lerned something today.
 

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Wrenching for a Livin'
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Discussion Starter #14
Franklin @ Home said:
Well I KNOW it is out of a 92, the roller part I THOUGHT started in 91 for the 351. Lerned something today.
If its a roller it will have the spider and dog bone assembly in the lifter valley. and the block should be stamper F4TE i believe, something like that.

Thanks for the offer, but i actually just bought a roller block and a bunch of other crap today for a steal of a price.


....sent you a PM.....
 

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The Anti Yam!
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magnumpi said:
If its a roller it will have the spider and dog bone assembly in the lifter valley
Actualy the blocks are only roller ready. They have the tall lifter bores but not the spider or roller lifter.
 

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Wrenching for a Livin'
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Discussion Starter #16
Gacknar said:
Actualy the blocks are only roller ready. They have the tall lifter bores but not the spider or roller lifter.
hmm...i was under the impression the spider/dog bones were there. The block i just bought def. has the spider in it, and it was in a van. Altough it is a rebuilt shortblock, maybe it was added??
 

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The Anti Yam!
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magnumpi said:
hmm...i was under the impression the spider/dog bones were there. The block i just bought def. has the spider in it, and it was in a van.
I may be wrong then.:doh0715:
Maybe they have everything you need but lifters and diferant length pushrods.

But I coulda swore they didn't.
 

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Wrenching for a Livin'
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Discussion Starter #18
i just looked at the block a few mins ago again...its def. a roller block f4te stamped on the side. Its got the spider and dog bones. i don't really know if the lifters are roller lifters or not, wouldn't they almost have to be to fit into the hold downs that hold them straight? Maybe they made a special flat tappet lifter for the roller blocks. Anyway, ill find out for sure tomorra, me and dave's Bronc 90 are gonna tear it down after work.
 

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The Anti Yam!
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magnumpi said:
i just looked at the block a few mins ago again...its def. a roller block f4te stamped on the side. Its got the spider and dog bones. i don't really know if the lifters are roller lifters or not, wouldn't they almost have to be to fit into the hold downs that hold them straight? Maybe they made a special flat tappet lifter for the roller blocks. Anyway, ill find out for sure tomorra, me and dave's Bronc 90 are gonna tear it down after work.
If the lifters are being held from turning by the Spider bar then they have to be roller lifters. Flat tappet lifters have to turn when the cam passes them. Thats why I said a roller ready block using flat tappet lifters (like in a 93-95 Lihgtning) shouldnt have the spider.

If thats the case, you dont just have a roller ready block, you have a complete roller engine.
 

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Wrenching for a Livin'
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Discussion Starter #20
Gacknar said:
If the lifters are being held from turning by the Spider bar then they have to be roller lifters. Flat tappet lifters have to turn when the cam passes them. Thats why I said a roller ready block using flat tappet lifters (like in a 93-95 Lihgtning) shouldnt have the spider.

If thats the case, you dont just have a roller ready block, you have a complete roller engine.
Wow, even better. Im sure dave's bronc 90 will be happy about that, hes gettin the internals
 
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