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Discussion Starter #1
Hey Guys,

I started this thread as a discussion thread about SAS performance. No I don’t mean will the truck handle like a sports car. But more of how will my newly SAS rig ride in a daily driver status. I and many others have been discussing about the performance advantages and disadvantages to a SAS. So instead of continuing to hijack a thread I thought I would make another one that we could discuss this topic.

So here are a few things that I want to bring to the table to discuss.
1. Will a SAS help elevate the gutter cracks that we see when wheeling a TTB suspension? I understand it wont prevent it but does it really help?

2. How will it handle on the road? I drive a SA Dodge 2500 everyday for work and I love how it performs on the road. What about a SA Bronco what should I expect?

3. How is your frame flex after the SAS. Yes this kinda goes along with the 1st question, but more of a question of the interior noises. The pops and groans that you get when the suspension is being cycled driving down the road.

So these are the questions that I would like to open discussion about these. I would like to here from those that have done a SAS and still use it as a DD / Wheeler, or heck even if you have driven your SA Bronco on the road what were your thoughts.

So lets here what you got.

Here you go Hopper :thumbup

BTW: This is not SAS vs TTB, or Should I or Should I not. Simply Discussion from those who have done this.

:popc1:
 

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I'm not going to quote and answer theses yet... But to be honest; How would a different axle under similar coil spring setup really affect body twist at all? Stiffer or softer springs, maybe will affect it. A Leaf SAS with another cross member upfront would affect it. I just don't see how removing the pivoting axle from the engine cross member would affect anything (maybe may it'll flex more).

My body panels have folds from flexing so much (no bumpers increased that) but I don't think something solid under longer and softer springs will be helping me once I finish my SAS. My 2¢
 

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Honestly, it is scary how much the frame and bodies flex in these rigs. Just this past weekend it was hearing my cage creek and groan as my bronco twisted up.

I think the key to keeping frame/body flex to a minimum it to make the front leaf spring hangers beefier and tie them together. For instance, mine is tied into my roll cage. And also to install a cross member between the radius arm mounts.

As for the ride on the road, I love mine. Really, with a coil sprung front end, you are going to get a pretty easy ride whether it is solid of IFS/TTB. It's when you start putting leaf springs in that the ride really changes.
 

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I think it more or less all depends on your set-up.. Ive been in my buddy's truck plenty of times, and after his SAS he had around 6" of lift.. The thing rode like butter... Now however with 14" of lift it rides like a big lifted truck... Its all about how you set-it up.. I WILL say however, to align a TTB front end can be a real pita. While a solid can be alot easier, or for that matter, problem free... but thats just my $0.02:thumbup
 

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ate lug
88 + 96 broncos, 96 F250
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My frame flex is nearly nonexistant now. No more pops or cracks anywhere, but it was too late to save the gutters. With a sitffer spring, or another pair of shocks up front, i think it would handle really well as a DD. Well, if i ditched the 42s for something more streetable :toothless
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Perfect thanks guys. This is what I am looking for. I know that Hopper had these same questions being discussed on bad96's SAS thread. Thats why I started this thread. So that we could continue that conversation.

Chex I see what you are saying but wouldn't removing that pivot point from the engine crossmember, which already is doing a tough enough job as it is. As I see it holds the frame together and keeps the engine supported and bolted to the frame. Add to that the twist and leverage the suspension puts on it and your obvioulsy setting yourself up for problems. :shrug I do think that softer coils on a TTB would help a lot.

Flourman I like that idea of having a crossmember in front of the engine and at your RA brackets. But I remember a thread where that can be a good thing and a bad as that would just transfer the stress somewhere else.

broncoxlt what coils or leafs was your friend running. I agree with you it is in how you set up. I also agree with you in that keeping a TTB aligned is a major PITA. Thats the other reason why a SAS is a good idea for a DD.

Rep I agree those 42's probably aren't best for street use. You should try some 29's then let us know. :rofl: Let me ask you this though with a coils for on road would that bring back negative traits off road. (not as flexable).


Thanks :thumbup
 

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ehhh... i dont know if you are making the frame stronger or weaker by doing a SAS... however, doing a SAS or lifting the truck in general does create more stress on the frame... most importantly however, what you do with the truck does the most damage... everyone flexes their truck who does a SAS... i can guarantee you that twists the frame... the sas most likely will make you flex out more often, and thats gonna twist the chassis

im fully boxing and re-enforcing my frame... you will see a build thread pop up tommorow... im gonna reduce the flex in the chassis...

build new bumpers and add a roll cage and you will help cut down chassis flex...once i get the cage in on top of my built frame i wont have to worry about frame flex anymore

dc
 

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and yes i agree... it is scary how much these frames flex... i have a bare frame with nothing on it... you can distort its shape 6" just by picking up one corner(only the xmembers exist)

:shocked
 

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ate lug
88 + 96 broncos, 96 F250
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My frame twists up a lot less, i can feel it. With the bind removed from the front suspension, less force is transmitted to the frame. Thats not to say it is 100% gone, but it is noticeably less when twisted up. Before i could actually feel the body distort when the cap was off, and now i cant, even when she's twisted to the max.

Rep I agree those 42's probably aren't best for street use. You should try some 29's then let us know. :rofl: Let me ask you this though with a coils for on road would that bring back negative traits off road. (not as flexable).
I ran it with 31s :toothless




I also borrowed a set of 38s from Ox for a short time before i got my 42s, and it rode decent. The biggest problem is i never balanced the 42s.

I dont think a stiffer coil would decrease the flex, it would just require a little more effort to achieve the same amount of flex. I would like to get my hands on a set of the 'new' 6" Superflex coils and see how differently they perform.
 

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Chex I see what you are saying but wouldn't removing that pivot point from the engine crossmember, which already is doing a tough enough job as it is. As I see it holds the frame together and keeps the engine supported and bolted to the frame. Add to that the twist and leverage the suspension puts on it and your obvioulsy setting yourself up for problems. :shrug I do think that softer coils on a TTB would help a lot.
To clarify, what I meant is the axle's pivot points. The cross member being the peace of metal that connects and goes under the engine between the two C frame rails. The TTB connects to this. Disconnect the axle, and leaving the bare cross member there is what I was referring too. Removing the entire front cross member is crazy!

Another note, is that it's common place to trim the cross member to allow for better diff clearance under compression. At least one member here has developed cracking in the cross member years later due to flexing.
 

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im runnin leaves and i couldnt be happier. it rides like a truck should. i dont use a steering stabilizer and dont really think i need one. i like the ride the leaves give better
 

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My own personal experiance is that it (Bronco w/ SAS) rides and drives better than my well mainitained stock 95. Steering is less vague too. I daily drive my SAS Bronco runnning up and down the freeway between 65-70 all the time and it's "only 1 finger needed on the wheel". Also towed a 6000 + lbs camp trailer all over creation with no problems. It towed the trailer better than my 95 too. I don't detect any noticable increase in frame flex so far. Not alot of popping or snapping while on the road or trail. I did add an additional crossmember right under the radiator.
It is a bit of work, but after reading everyones swaps on this board, it's been ironed out pretty well.
 

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broncoxlt what coils or leafs was your friend running. I agree with you it is in how you set up. I also agree with you in that keeping a TTB aligned is a major PITA. Thats the other reason why a SAS is a good idea for a DD.
He had a 6" super lift coil on it when he first did it. Now hes got some custom 12" coils...:banghead I swear i think that putting a cinder block as a lift would ride better......
 

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Another good note for SAS, if your using a Kingpin 60, you dont have to worry about balljoints.. I hate doing balljoints:madder, not that kingpins are any easier or less time consuming.. You just dont have to do them as often....:goodfinge
 

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I would like to get my hands on a set of the 'new' 6" Superflex coils and see how differently they perform.
Alright, alright already. :toothless

Should I make a new thread telling you to answer your PMs? :rofl:
 

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Here's my .02:

1. Will a SAS help elevate the gutter cracks that we see when wheeling a TTB suspension? I understand it wont prevent it but does it really help?

Dunno, mine were already shot.

2. How will it handle on the road? I drive a SA Dodge 2500 everyday for work and I love how it performs on the road. What about a SA Bronco what should I expect?

Softer springs with more travel, so the ride over bumps is much smoother. No harsh edge like it used to have w/ a 6" TTB lift. On the other hand, much more body roll. Steering wanders less. Overall, still more fun to drive on the road.

3. How is your frame flex after the SAS. Yes this kinda goes along with the 1st question, but more of a question of the interior noises. The pops and groans that you get when the suspension is being cycled driving down the road.

I used to spend a lot of time on 2 or 3 wheels w/ TTB. As a result, the bed seams next to the back seat separated (you could see the ground while sitting in the back seat), and I got a ton of creaks and pops. The metal section of roof used to pop in and out. W/ new suspension and an extra front crossmember, the springs do more of the work. Very little sound effects while the suspension cycles, and my ghetto welds on the bed seams have yet to make a sound.
 

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it seems to me that SAS as a means of alleviating stress on the frame and body is a very bad solution. You would be much better off going head on at the issue and boxing your frame, doing a cage, or adding crossmembers (strategically).
 

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Maybe we should ask this question.....

Has anyone had a bronco with uncracked rain gutters, then did a SAS and had the rain gutters crack?

Might shed a little more light on what actually is causing the cracks...
 

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I would like to get my hands on a set of the 'new' 6" Superflex coils and see how differently they perform.

Ive got the new deavers 300s they are a dream my bronco rides nice. I put some sky jackers on for a short period Of time and I couldnt handle it. those new deavers are the answer.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Thanks for the reply’s guys. This is the exact information I and some others are looking (Maybe they will post up to get more of their questions answered :rofl:). So I understand that a SA is not a complete cure for the gutter crack but it does help control it a bit. And magnumpi that is a good question that I would like to see answered.

Has anyone had a bronco with uncracked rain gutters, then did a SAS and had the rain gutters crack?
With those questions answered lets here about some of the offroad manners. Bad96 described a lateral movement when his suspension flexed. I understand the reason for that movement but how does that fill. Other than the obvious of being able to keep more tires on the ground, and stronger in most cases. What other aspects benefit a SAS here. What are the characteristics of how it works?

Once again just for those who think this is pointless and I didn’t want to search so I started a thread to get answers.” I have been talking to many members about their SAS. I thought it would be a good idea to have a thread to shows the characteristics and performance of a SAS so that some of the questions others have would be answered.
 
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