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Formerly vt89gtvert
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
OK, So as I am sure one or two of you know I am rebuilding a 79 D60 for my SAS. I am down to the kingpins and knuckles.

The first kingpin is removed by placing the 7/8's allen wrench, and a 5.5 foot Schedule 80 breaker bar and then applying force. The one was not a major issue so I expected the same from the other side......

First I broke the allen wrench because I used it by sticking the tall end in the kingpin



I did it this way because My 220 LBS weight on the bar way not enough to break free the bar, and I needed to place me feet on the axle, and pull back on the breaker bar. THis is how I got the first one free.

Then I broke the kingpin...




This is what it is supposed to look like


Does anyone know of a solution???

I am thinking it is going to involve a machine shop....


Thanks in advance
 

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The same thing happened to us when we were building MagnumPI's D60. One of them came out okay, the other one broke just like yours did. The solution wasn't near as bad as you think. We ended up welding the exterior or the king pin back together, then welded the Allen wrench to the king pin. This obviously got the king pin extremely hot. Then we took a torch and heated the hell out of the C for a few minutes. All of that heat combined allowed us to turn the damaged king pin out relatively easily. Well, I say easily; it still took a huge breaker bar, but you know what I mean. It kind of sucks that we had to sacrifice the Allen wrench, but that was the only thing that was going to work. The wrench isn't completely useless though; after we destroyed our wrench we sawed the long end off in the band saw, and that piece can now be inserted into a 7/8" socket to still use it as a wrench. I think that MagnumPI has some pics of the whole ordeal, maybe he'll post them up.

edit: Oh, and take that knuckle off before you go any farther. It'll give you more room to work. When the lower bearing is removed you can slide the knuckle off with the king pin still in place.
 

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Formerly vt89gtvert
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Do what Dave said, that's your best option before going any farther.
I am going to shortly, but after how easy the first came lose I was hoping would be able to do it without taking the knucle off, but shit happens.....

Now I have a NEW issue to deal with...
 

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Formerly vt89gtvert
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
and cut that 7/8 allen down to 4" long... one end in the kinpin, the other in a impact socket attatched to a impact gun...
I have a 7/8th slug that I tried my Earthquack impact on. I think I actually heard the kingpin laugh......
 

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Wrenching for a Livin'
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probably gonna have to have a 3/4" impact if you want to use air to break it loose. Or one heck of a compressor, large line and powerful 1/2 impact.

Ill have to dig up the pics from my ordeal....it really did suck. I laughed my butt off when it first happened, because only I would snap a kingpin AND destory a hard to find allen wrench at the same time....at least i thought only i could do that....
 

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I have a 7/8th slug that I tried my Earthquack impact on. I think I actually heard the kingpin laugh......
I know what you mean. If your impact is the 1/2" Earthquake it's the same one I've got. It really is a great gun, but in the end it's only 1/2" and not sufficient for this job. When I run into something like this that really begs for a big impact I've got a diesel mechanic buddy who gets the call, and he brings over either his 3/4" or his 1" drive impact. Can't say that I've ever seen the 1" impact stall on anything yet. I could never justify a 1" drive impact for my shop, but if I ever run across a good deal on a 3/4" one I'm going to snap it up.
 

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Can't say that I've ever seen the 1" impact stall on anything yet. I could never justify a 1" drive impact for my shop, but if I ever run across a good deal on a 3/4" one I'm going to snap it up.
That 1" gun steve brought over is rated at somewhere around 1500 ft/lbs :shocked
 

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Formerly vt89gtvert
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I know what you mean. If your impact is the 1/2" Earthquake it's the same one I've got. It really is a great gun, but in the end it's only 1/2" and not sufficient for this job. When I run into something like this that really begs for a big impact I've got a diesel mechanic buddy who gets the call, and he brings over either his 3/4" or his 1" drive impact. Can't say that I've ever seen the 1" impact stall on anything yet. I could never justify a 1" drive impact for my shop, but if I ever run across a good deal on a 3/4" one I'm going to snap it up.
I almost bought a one inch IR for $80 at an auction on Saturday. But I thought. "I will only ever need it for the kingpin most likely, so no need to spend $80 just for that....."

I think I am going to take it to a Machine shop anyway. My welding skills are..... Nonexsistant. I have a Hobart 135 but I have not welded anything with it yet.... And I am just worried about messing it up worse. If the charge me $30 I am just going to call it even and move on with this one....
 

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I almost bought a one inch IR for $80 at an auction on Saturday. But I thought. "I will only ever need it for the kingpin most likely, so no need to spend $80 just for that....."

I think I am going to take it to a Machine shop anyway. My welding skills are..... Nonexsistant. I have a Hobart 135 but I have not welded anything with it yet.... And I am just worried about messing it up worse. If the charge me $30 I am just going to call it even and move on with this one....
That is probably the way to go. A 135 won't be able to get the penetration you want for this job. When I did mine I put the Allen key in place, then clamped the old broken pieces of king pin back into position, used a cut off wheel to grind some reliefs in the cracks, then welded it up as hot as I could with .035 wire, which resulted in great penetration. With my Lincoln 210 I can't even use the three highest settings on the welder without switching out to .045 wire.
 

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Did you try to remove the kingpin, with the knuckle still on?

In case you did not know, ( and maybe for next time) you can and should remove the knuckle before the king pin, you just pull the bottom cap off.

You can easily weld a big ass nut (3/4" to 1") to the king pin itself broken or not, then use a normal socket/breaker to remove. the heat/cooling from the weld will help loosen the pin. This is most likely what the machine shop will do, and unless you "know a guy" $30 wont cover it.

you do not need to have any skill to get a nut welded to the king pin.
 

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Formerly vt89gtvert
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Be damn careful removing the lower bearing cap. They stick like a bear, too, and are easy to screw up.
I have noticed this so far. When I broke it I was just messing around since I only had about an hour of garage time. After it broke I started messing with getting the knuckle off, and the four bolts came out easy, but the cap stayed on.....

i think sometime this weekend I will get a little time to really do something about it. I have a machine shop down the street that I think might help me out. I really jsut want the damned this out so I can move on to other things. I still need to pull the carrier and clean/paint the axle tubes, then start putting it back together. Having all these parts all over my garage floor is getting old......
 

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I have noticed this so far. When I broke it I was just messing around since I only had about an hour of garage time. After it broke I started messing with getting the knuckle off, and the four bolts came out easy, but the cap stayed on.....

i think sometime this weekend I will get a little time to really do something about it. I have a machine shop down the street that I think might help me out. I really jsut want the damned this out so I can move on to other things. I still need to pull the carrier and clean/paint the axle tubes, then start putting it back together. Having all these parts all over my garage floor is getting old......
you should not need a machine shop to do any of the work you need to do the the front axle.. Do you have a welder? or know anyone with one? thats how you get the broke king pin out. weld it up, and take out. for the bottom cap its not too bad to get out. just don't beat the hell out of it with a hammer. try to turn it and wiggle it out with a big channel lock.
 

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Formerly vt89gtvert
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
you should not need a machine shop to do any of the work you need to do the the front axle.. Do you have a welder? or know anyone with one? thats how you get the broke king pin out. weld it up, and take out. for the bottom cap its not too bad to get out. just don't beat the hell out of it with a hammer. try to turn it and wiggle it out with a big channel lock.
As said above, I have a 135 welder, but have not had the chance to learn anthing with it yet and am not sure if it is big enough. My first welding project was going to be build a welding cart, but life gets in the way sometimes.....And other projects.

I am what you would call a novice (At best) at this, so I am feeling my out on this one.
 

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bummer with the king pin problems.

fyi. i beat my lower king pin cap off with a hammer (3#) and a piece of old TRE. it came out after some time. had to do both this way and they both are fine. i think i had to grind the lip that formed off one of them. how did you even inspect the kingpin to determine this even needed to be done without taking the knuckle off?

i've done two D60's and neither needed new king pins. just grease, bushings, seals, bearings grease nipples, new springs, new bolts.

edit: this is a great learning experience for the welder. just clean everything. then again. then again. then the nut. then again. turn the macxhineing up as high as you can. pre heat with propane or a torch if you've got it. if it doesn't work the king pin is already broken what are you worried about?
 

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Formerly vt89gtvert
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
bummer with the king pin problems.

fyi. i beat my lower king pin cap off with a hammer (3#) and a piece of old TRE. it came out after some time. had to do both this way and they both are fine. i think i had to grind the lip that formed off one of them. how did you even inspect the kingpin to determine this even needed to be done without taking the knuckle off?

i've done two D60's and neither needed new king pins. just grease, bushings, seals, bearings grease nipples, new springs, new bolts.

edit: this is a great learning experience for the welder. just clean everything. then again. then again. then the nut. then again. turn the macxhineing up as high as you can. pre heat with propane or a torch if you've got it. if it doesn't work the king pin is already broken what are you worried about?

Looking at the first kingpin (The one that didn't break) I am 50/50 on needing to replace it. But when you are balls deep might as well go for the gold :shrug

I am thinking first try Dave and Magnums idea. If that doesn't work......

I have been reading, and there is a process in which you weld a square tube to the kingpin, and then using a pipe wrench to get it off.

I am thinking of using a high voltage, and low wire speed, then allowing the heat to help losen things a little? (This is a guess and probibly a bad idea I am sure, please correct if this is true). If nothing else there is always the machine shop as a back-up.....
 

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Wrenching for a Livin'
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the heat is probably what helped us on mine the most.

You don't want the whole C cherry red, but get the kingpin pretty dang hot. laying a really thick bead will heat 'er up quick then keep a torch on it, and get the biggest cheater bar you can find. Ours was aroun 7ft long
 

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Formerly vt89gtvert
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
the heat is probably what helped us on mine the most.

You don't want the whole C cherry red, but get the kingpin pretty dang hot. laying a really thick bead will heat 'er up quick then keep a torch on it, and get the biggest cheater bar you can find. Ours was aroun 7ft long
I used 5.5 feet of schedule 80 to break it. This is going to be a very interesting......

Note to self: If you ever think "I might be getting in over my head, but it will be fun to learn" you are in for an adventure....
 
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