[COUNTRY_PUNK]

Ugh, that sound... Not quite how I wanted to get my upgraded build started 😪

I'm looking to rebuild to maximize performance, specifically in the torque department while running factory ECU and tune.
The only thing I 'm sure of is running the 5.0 roller cam and aluminum GT40 heads with 1.6 roller rockers. I had planned to fork the money for the Edelbrock intake but from what I read here its more of a paperweight and doesn't do anything for torque anyway. I was also thinking of doing a stroker since I'm sure the crank needs replaced now anyway, but I can't seem to find a straight answer if it would really increase any performance without a tune.. anyone got any help on that?

So, am I maxed out at the cam and heads? (I'm already running JBA headers and a custom exhaust). Is there a certain style piston I could run that would be better with those heads🤷‍♂️?

This is a 1995 / 5.8L / E4OD

 

[Kingfish999]

strokers cost money. but at the same time its a good time to do one since you will be needing to rebuild it anyways. if you spun a rod then the crank is ruined as well as that rod and usually the other next to it. since a 393 uses stock rods, a 408 would be the go-to option. but you will be spending at least 1200 for the kit plus machine work and balancing. but it defiantly would increase torque and making for easier to achieve HP. you can always do the stroker now and then change the top end later

by 'aluminum GT40' do you mean Ford Racing GT40X or Y heads? there are alot of cheap china aluminum heads on ebay that say aluminum GT40 but really have nothing to do with GT40 heads. and are usually pretty poor quality. decent aluminum heads are usually like 1200 and up. the AFR Enforcers are good budget aluminum heads. the GT40X heads are decent, the Y are not as good. Think they released a new version recently

you can do a a stroker with decent heads on stock efi. but it can be pretty limiting. cant really change injector size too much before the EFI gets confused but theres some people running pretty good combos with stock EFI

i cant justify the 3881 intake. its just too expensive for an intake thats pretty ugly and bulky and not al lthat great. one of the popular intake porters BigDogPorting claims that he can port the stock intake to outperform then 3881 for only like 300 bucks. but I myself would probably go with a mustang style intake because i like how much sleeker they are.

piston will depend on what you want for compression ratio, head chamber size, and stroke.

many people will say to convert to MAF but i think the better option nowdays would probably look into the PimpXshift as a direct swap aftermarekt EFI. but thats pretty expensive also

 

[BigBlue 94]

Comp 35-512-8 is a great cam to run on a factory ECU and tune with aluminum heads. On a 9.5:1 compression short block, they will get you to the max power your injectors can handle. Thats 275 hp iirc.

I built my 94 351 based on that cam back in 2007 or so after a screw lodged in one of my intake valves.

Paired with ported AFR 165 heads, the edelbrock intake, and headers, it Desktop Dynoed at 340 hp and 475 ft lbs. Of course i never saw that with a factory tune. It was 10.5:1 compression and 357 cubic inches.

 

[COUNTRY_PUNK]

These were the heads I saw in my quick search:

Ford 351W 408 427 5.0 Top End Kit Aluminum Heads GT40 EFI carburetor | eBay

These heads feature closed style 64cc combustion chambers and 190cc intake runners. In unported form these heads will support 400+ horsepower on pump gas. If you are looking for a race grade head that is comparable to Edelbrock, Dart, Trick Flow and AFR at a fraction of the price look no farther...

www.ebay.com

I am sticking with factory ECU / speed density, for simplicity... I don't want to screw around with the electronics on this thing as I have too many other projects I'm building. This truck rarely does anything more than pull a boat, carry dirt bikes or run a couple blocks to Home Depot. Fortunately, I have no debt and few bills, so money isn't a quite an issue. I have no need to cut corners this time around.

Kingfish999, So your confirming I could stroke to a 408 and still run factory ECU / tune?

If I'm not doing the 3881 I may look into porting mine, but I won't be switching to another style intake... again for simplicity. I don't have time to dick around with running new wiring and vacuum lines and such. My idea is to build a motor that fits like stock, but maximizes the potential of the stock ECU. I want to be able to unplug, unbolt, pull out then re-install, and plug everything back in within a few hours... I may even purchase a new block just to make the process quicker.

 

[Kingfish999]

ya those are Procomp heads. i wouldnt recommend them myself tho there are people who use them. just hear soo much bad about the quality.

honestly you might just order a crate longblock and call it done. swap the cam with one you want to run cause most cams inclueded will not work with the EFI.

 

[Want2BS8ed]

You've already gotten some great advice from two of the more knowledgeable folks here in FSB.

I can attest to successfully running a stroked SBF on a stock speed density ECU (347 w/ GT40 heads and 1.7 roller rockers), albeit with a milder cam that pulls everything together.

Fortunately the Ford 302 truck intake is one of the better intakes Ford has designed. The 351? Not so much... my advice (FWIW, i.e. free internet advice), plan on buying the Edelbrock truck intake. The large longer runners are going to increase the torque you are looking for.

GT40 heads are getting harder to find and thus more expensive. We really are at an inflection point where the cost and performance benefits of imported AFR, Trickflow, Edelbrock, etc heads outweigh the cost of rebuilding GT40's.

I'll also echo the recommendation to buy a roller. Reach out to Jerrame at Creb Engineering in Rhode Island. He'll walk you through what you want and likely save you a bundle in the long run.

 

[COUNTRY_PUNK]

I was shopping for take off GT40's and then decided I might as well get new aluminum ones and then saw that nice clean kit. Didn't look into it very deep yet. I'll probably go with AFR's as that seems to be the tried and true head.

I was originally looking into a long block, I would MUCH rather have something already done and assembled but I'm running into issues finding anything that will work with factory ECU/speed density.

So were at a 408 stroke with:
Comp 35-512-8 cam
AFR 165's
1.6 rollers
stock intake ported at BigDogs

...and all this is going to work with factory set-up?

You've got a good idea there Kingfish, I guess it really is just the cam that keeps it from working with the factory EFI right?

 

[COUNTRY_PUNK]

Doing the math here the crate motor might even be the cheapest option... So, correct me if I'm wrong, but I could buy this:

ATK Engines HP21: High Performance Crate Engine Small Block Ford 408ci / 430HP / 500TQ - JEGS High Performance

Buy ATK Engines HP21 at JEGS: ATK Engines High Performance Crate Engine Small Block Ford 408ci / 430HP / 500TQ. Guaranteed lowest price!

www.jegs.com

swap to the Comp 35-512-8 cam, bolt on my newly ported "stock" intake and be running with factory ECU and injectors? That seems too good to be true...

 

[Kingfish999]

i will note that BigDogs porting may take several months. its not a quick in and out kinda thing. and ive heard some not so happy people complain about him. but i know hes made FB posts about porting the 5.8 truck intakes claiming they outflow the 3881 for a third the price. so you might message him about the turn around time and costs. also might get a used one to send in to him.

Bigdog Porting

Who has had experience with this outfit? I came to find them from a post on here and sent my heads to them on February 4th of this year. The 2nd week of March they messaged me that they would be ready to ship out the following week. On March 23, they said they're being shipped "Get Ready to...

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another guy to talk to might be TMOSS. he is not o nthis forum but is another porter. i feel like he has alot better reputation and less exaggerated claims. he also is very helpfull and a big contributor on the mustang forums as well as many articles for general stuff as well as porting. and i hear his turn around time is alot quicker. if i were to have something ported id use him. but he can be kinda cryptic on gains sometimes

Tmoss Porting

tmoss.efidynotuning.com

something that i tend to recommend when building a stroker or with good flowing heads is using a custom grind camshaft. it might help ensure you get a good running engine and maximize power. and it doesnt really cost that much more than an off-the-shelf cam. i use Ed with FlowTechInduction myself. he is more of a mustang guy and might not be super familiar with truck speed density but he might be able to build a good cam. but he does require you to know quite abit about the engine specs and he generally doesnt help very much unless you already purchased a cam. he doesnt like his time wasted.

the cam is a big factor in how the speed density reads due to the vacuum signals. but theres alot of other factors also.

before you know it you will be decideding to make the plunge into MAF or aftermarket EFI

 

[Burntoutaccountant]

i will note that BigDogs porting may take several months. its not a quick in and out kinda thing. and ive heard some not so happy people complain about him. but i know hes made FB posts about porting the 5.8 truck intakes claiming they outflow the 3881 for a third the price. so you might message him about the turn around time and costs. also might get a used one to send in to him.

Bigdog Porting

Who has had experience with this outfit? I came to find them from a post on here and sent my heads to them on February 4th of this year. The 2nd week of March they messaged me that they would be ready to ship out the following week. On March 23, they said they're being shipped "Get Ready to...

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another guy to talk to might be TMOSS. he is not o nthis forum but is another porter. i feel like he has alot better reputation and less exaggerated claims. he also is very helpfull and a big contributor on the mustang forums as well as many articles for general stuff as well as porting. and i hear his turn around time is alot quicker. if i were to have something ported id use him. but he can be kinda cryptic on gains sometimes

Tmoss Porting

tmoss.efidynotuning.com

something that i tend to recommend when building a stroker or with good flowing heads is using a custom grind camshaft. it might help ensure you get a good running engine and maximize power. and it doesnt really cost that much more than an off-the-shelf cam. i use Ed with FlowTechInduction myself. he is more of a mustang guy and might not be super familiar with truck speed density but he might be able to build a good cam. but he does require you to know quite abit about the engine specs and he generally doesnt help very much unless you already purchased a cam. he doesnt like his time wasted.

the cam is a big factor in how the speed density reads due to the vacuum signals. but theres alot of other factors also.

before you know it you will be decideding to make the plunge into MAF or aftermarket EFI

I can’t recommend Ed. I’m in the middle of a nasty dispute/refund issue with him. If you use Ed, only order a camshaft.

 

[Kingfish999]

I can’t recommend Ed. I’m in the middle of a nasty dispute/refund issue with him. If you use Ed, only order a camshaft.

thats unfortunate. whats the issue?

 

[Burntoutaccountant]

thats unfortunate. whats the issue?

Loading…

www.corral.net

 

[MS88Bronc]

FWIW, I rebuilt a 351 to a non-stroked 357, with the 35-512-8 cam, Flotek 180/58 aluminum heads, Edelbrock 3881 intake, flat top Speed Pro pistons/Scat rods for a 9.8:1 compression, and 24# injectors in my 96 (EEC-V OBD2 PCM). It ran fine with no tune at all. HOWEVER, it ran a helluva lot stronger after a tune. The issues that were adjusted in the tune were fuel trims, E4OD shift points firmed up (less slip), and timing advance curve. That last one is the kicker - the stock timing advance curve is a bit anemic, especially with aluminum heads where you can run more advance with less potential for detonation. IIRC, the stock timing advance at WOT was around 21 deg total timing. My tuner adjusted it up to 28 deg total and it definitely woke it up. I know a local guy here in SE Michigan (who did my tune) who can chip your OBD1 PCM based on cam, compression, timing, fuel, etc. He's well known in my area for tuning Fox mustangs and 80s-90s Ford trucks.

PM me if you want his contact info.

 

[BigBlue 94]

So were at a 408 stroke with:
Comp 35-512-8 cam
AFR 165's
1.6 rollers
stock intake ported at BigDogs

Haha those 165 heads would choke a 408 out quick. AFR 205 heads would be the better option for a 408. They have bigger intake runners.

On my 357W that cam made its max torque at 2000 rpms.

 

[Jetski247]

i can't believe the cost of the 3881, i got mine when they first came out for around $750 back then, which was a LOT of money.

 

[MS88Bronc]

i can't believe the cost of the 3881, i got mine when they first came out for around $750 back then, which was a LOT of money.

Got mine 1.5 yrs ago at 900

 

[Burntoutaccountant]

Got mine 1.5 yrs ago at 900

I thought that was high then. I just looked up the price of new ones. Inflation is a bitch.

 

[MS88Bronc]

I thought that was high then. I just looked up the price of new ones. Inflation is a bitch.

For real. I saw it at 1150 today. May as well go with a damn carb intake and aftermarket EFI at this point.

 

[Burntoutaccountant]

For real. I saw it at 1150 today. May as well go with a damn carb intake and aftermarket EFI at this point.

Holley hi ram. Or a used one. That’s stupid pricing. I can justify $800-900 but that’s it. That’s pricing for a fast intake on a ls motor so I’m used to it. But $1100 for a truck intake is bananas. Anyway. Hopefully op finds something suitable. I’ll have a gt40 lightning intake for sale eventually. There’s better stuff but that definitely has the bling factor lol.

 

[MS88Bronc]

Holley hi ram. Or a used one. That’s stupid pricing. I can justify $800-900 but that’s it. That’s pricing for a fast intake on a ls motor so I’m used to it. But $1100 for a truck intake is bananas. Anyway. Hopefully op finds something suitable. I’ll have a gt40 lightning intake for sale eventually. There’s better stuff but that definitely has the bling factor lol.

Lol SKY ram