Bronco Forum - Full Size Ford Bronco Forum banner

spout in--ping. spout out--no ping.

61118 Views 215 Replies 28 Participants Last post by  VaMark
Hi everyone. I bought a bronco about a month ago, and decided to complete the sixlitre upgrade today. I replaced the plugs, wires, coil, and cap (ordered the wrong rotor, so didn't replace that). After replacing those parts, I went to remove the spout connector, and discovered that it was not there. After some research, I found that the spout connector is no more than a jumper wire to allow the truck to advance/retard its timing automatically. So, with the spout out--I adjusted the timing to 13.5*. I found a piece of wire to install as a temporary spout connector, then took the truck on a test drive. While doing this, i noticed a crazy amount of pinging when the engine was loaded (foot in the pedal or climbing a hill). I retarded the timing a bit, and it still pinged. I did this a couple times and the problem never went away. Eventually, I set the timing back to 10* and the pinging did not go away. THEN, i pulled the spout connector back out and ran the truck at stock timing and it never pinged. So basically, when the truck automatically controls its timing, it pings. When it's set at 10* with no varying--no ping.

In my mind, whatever it is that tells the "computer" what it needs to do to the timing is lying. Can anybody explain that system to me?

Any suggestions? I'm an electrical troubleshooter for a living, however I'm kind of green when it comes to understanding how this this whole system works. Thanks for your help.

p.s. I wonder if the person i bought the vehicle from, had removed the spout connector to "fix" their pinging issue. just a thought.
See less See more
81 - 100 of 216 Posts
I think that the PCM ground is near the hinge to the hood on the driver's side.

The PCM controls many things by way of sending a grounding signal. A poor ground to the PCM would prohibit it from sending a good ground to actuators it is controlling. I'd say that you found something worth investigating. I didn't look back at the particular relevance. I'm just talking to give you a little encouragement and to recognise your achievement! :)

so check this out. I went back out to my bronco to track down the ground issue that was found last night, and checked the exact points i checked last night (battery negative post to ground pins 40 and 60 of EEC), and the resistance was 1.0 ohm! I almost fell on the ground i was so pissed! So, i stepped back for a second and tried to think of what changed. I didn't drive the bronco. I was using the same meter (which was actually hooked up all night). The only think i could think that was different was that i had the door open on the drivers side which caused the "dinger" to "ding" and the theft light to flash on the instrument panel. So, i opened the door back up, and there it was--the resistance climbed back up to 13 ohms. I put that in the back of my mind as I started inspecting and cleaning up my grounds from the negative post of the battery over to my EEC.
After cleaning up my grounds I was able to get the resistance down to 8 ohms. However, when i read the 8 ohms (with the door open and dinger dinging) the resistance was oscillating from 8 to something that i couldn't read. I noticed that the oscillation was at the same frequency as the theft light was flashing on/off. This got me going back in the direction of the faulty anti-theft module that the previous owner had "bypassed". So, i pulled the fuse that was labeled to go to the anti-theft/keyless entry system, and noted that the plastic section of the fuse itself was melted. Now, I'm stuck--I don't even know where the anti-theft module is and don't even know if this little tangent i'm on is the issue. HELP!
See less See more
Pins 40 and 60 goto to the ground near the battery, if it appears clean and tight. look at the eye itself, is it cleanly connected to the wire? Pin that wire four inches away (I just made up that number) and check the ohms.

Sorry i have no info whatsoever on any anti-theft.
i thought pin 40 and 60 went to the ground connection on next to the hood hinge (near the cruise control servo). Anyhoo, I'm pretty sure that its still a ground issue. I get high resistance readings (8-100 ohms) if i try to read resistance from the negative post on the battery to the individual grounds. my weekend project is going to be to INDEPTHLY, clean, improve, or replace my existing grounds. I have some 10 gauge aluminum wire thats been laying in my shop for a while that I can fabricate some newer, better ground straps. Even if it doesn't fix my issue; it needs to be done.
I think that is also a ground for the PCM. I think that the PCM actually gets three grounds, maybe four. But according to Haynes, the one near the battery (Passenger side front engine compartment.) is the one for pins 40 and 60.
... I have some 10 gauge aluminum wire thats been laying in my shop for a while that I can fabricate some newer, better ground straps. Even if it doesn't fix my issue; it needs to be done.
Aluminum wire would not be the best choice for automotive use, it oxidizes when wet, and the oxidation is highly resistive, and if you use copper lugs on the end of the aluminum wire, you will have a galvanic oxidation issue, which will probably be a high resistance connection. Google aluminum wire with copper connectors and you will find the rest of the reasons it is not appropriate for automotive use. Aluminum wire has been prohibited in household and mobile home applications since the 70's IIRC.
arent the fenders and most of the body made out of aluminum? sorry if i'm wrong and that sounds dumb--auto-body is not something i know much about, however mixing copper and aluminum together--is. The reason i chose aluminum wire was due to me thinking the body was made out of aluminum.
Tonight, I suped up the grounds around in the engine compartment. I put some NEW straps connecting the fenders to the firewall. In doing this I found that opening the door, turning on lights, and turning on the ignition made the ohmic value from my grounds to the negative post on the battery increase dramatically. With headlights on bright, door open (chime and dome light), and hood light on I read somewhere around 80 ohms from my ground near the STI connector to the negative post on the battery. I decided to isolate various circuits to see if any ONE circuit was causing the spike in ohms and I found it. One by one i pulled each fuse while watching my meter to see if the ohms dropped. Once i got to a 50 Amp Maxi fuse in the engine compartment fuse block, and pulled it, the ohms dropped to ohms. After looking at my bronco book, apparently this circuit is for the dome light, courtesy lamps, and instrument cluster. So tomorrow I'm gonna see if i can locate the ground for that particular circuit. Also, with that fuse pulled and ohms reading on the fluke, I turned on the ignition switch and the ohms went up to 30 or something like that. So, i'm pretty sure there's multiple circuits involved. do you follow? if not--that's ok. I barely do.
See less See more
arent the fenders and most of the body made out of aluminum? sorry if i'm wrong and that sounds dumb--auto-body is not something i know much about, however mixing copper and aluminum together--is. The reason i chose aluminum wire was due to me thinking the body was made out of aluminum.
The body, fenders, frame, etc are all steel. If you don't believe me, get a magnet.

Good ground wires have copper wire soldered to copper lugs.
nice to know! I'll replace em with copper then. thanks.
The ground for the under the hood light is driver's side upper radiator support.... from Haynes

I never heard of using OHMS as a way to check for a ground.
Could you please explain how you are doing it?

How to check a ground

Fuse 6 was the one that you pulled for anti-theft, Keyless entry and AC Compr. clutch, right?
Mikey has the AT Module pics!

I don't believe the location cited below in the TSB is correct... I have heard that the Anti-Theft Controller Module is located behind the LH side of the instrument panel

Our pal MIKEY can confirm location.

I intend to get to the system's Ground; CKT 570 BK/W

Wiring Diagram in a 94

and fyi:
Anti-Theft Protection System - Recap Of TSB's - Service Tips TSB 94-25-5
1992-94 Econoline
1993-94 Bronco1993-95 Explorer
1994 F-150-350 Series
1995 Ranger

ISSUE An Anti-Theft System TSB recap has been developed for service use. This article includes the following topics:

(A) Anti-Theft Warning - Service Tips
(B) Anti-Theft Warning - Inadvertent Alarm Activation
(C) Anti-Theft Warning - Erratic Door Lock Operation

ACTION If Anti-Theft System repair is required, refer to the following procedures and references for service details.


ISSUE When installing the accessory (Dealer-installed) Remote Keyless Entry Kit (or any Aftermarket system), particular attention must be taken when connecting the starter interrupt feature. Both wires which originate from the same terminal of the ignition switch must be cut and crimped into the butt connectors as shown in the installation instructions. Incorrect connection to the start circuit can cause inoperative vehicle speed control and/or no self test codes from the vehicle self test diagnostic system.

ACTION Refer to installation instructions for wire color codes, or call 1-800-FORD KEY for assistance with Ford Dealer-installed accessory Remote Keyless Entry Kit assistance.


ISSUE This change was incorporated to meet with New York State legislation requirements governing the operation of alarm sirens.

ACTION 1993-94 all NAAO vehicles RKE-equipped will, as of May 1, 1993, incorporate a software change that will shorten the length of time that the alarm will stay on when the panic button is pushed once. Alarm will sound for no more than 2 minutes 45 seconds. The time duration was 3 minutes.

ISSUE Water intrusion into the Right or Left Front Courtesy Lamp Switch (refer to EVTM) of the Anti-Theft System may cause inadvertent activation of the system.

ACTION To correct this condition you should:

Remove the switch from the door.
Place a small amount of silicone sealant on the back of the connector where the wires exit the connector (enough sealant should be used to seal the connector and prevent further water intrusion).
Tape wrap the connector and about 1.5" (38mm) of the wires beyond the switch connector.
Reinstall the switch.
Verify the repair.


ISSUE Vehicles built prior to 10/1/94 may have a concern with water entry into the area of the left rear quarter panel. Water can leak into the Anti-Theft Module and create inadvertent activation of the Anti-Theft Warning System, (lights flash and horn sounds) without ignition lockout.

ACTION To correct this condition, you should follow normal diagnostics as outlined in the appropriate Service Manual, Section 13-11. If the concern cannot be isolated, or diagnostics lead to replacement of the module, replace the Anti-Theft Module with part number F2VY-19A366-A for 1993 Model Year, and part number F4TZ-19A366-B for 1994 Model Year (these modules contain a water flap to resist water and prevent water intrusion).

F2VY-19A366-A Anti-Theft Module (1993) B
F4TZ-19A366-B Anti-Theft Module (1994) C
See less See more
G200 Behind bottom of RH cowl panel Location Diagram (partial) in 92-96Source: by fordbronco1995 ("JUICE") at FSB

in a 96, G200 Behind bottom of RH cowl panel serves Component, Air Bag Diagnostic Monitor, Electronic Shift Control Module, Instrument Cluster, Programmable Speedometer/Odometer Module (PSOM), Remote/Keyless Entry Module, Speed Control Servo/Amplifier Assembly
See less See more
I'm doing this "Turn power to the circuit off, and use a self powered test light, or an ohm meter, and test the grounded wire to a good ground. IF the light goes on, or there is continuity on the ohm meter, then the ground is probably good. (There may still be ressistance in the connection, if significant one will see it in the ohm meter, or the light may not shine brightly.) Using a DVM is a better method". I'm using the ohm's function of my DVM and reading the resistance at various grounds in relation to the negative battery post.
Thanks for the explanation. I'm trying to wrap my hands around, why the resistance in one ground goes up when you open your door.

Now I'm wondering... does the resistance go up if you turn the headlights on? or for that matter any other electrical circuit?
Yes, when i open my door, turn on the headlights, or do anything that puts a load on the grounds--the ohms jump up to somewhere between 30 and 80 ohms. I'm wondering if i have a "hot" bleeding through to my ground somewhere (e.g. a chaffed wire "kinda" touching ground). I've checked my G200 ground, and all the grounds in the engine compartment. If someone has a similar bronco, could they check the resistance from the negative post of the battery to some ground somewhere with the door open and then the door closed and give me their results? I'm pretty sure that grounds should ring out at ohms no matter what, but i'd like some clarification if someone has the time. Thanks.

If you're checking with multi-meter on Resistance (OHMs) function, do not power-up the Bronco.

disconnect the Anti-Theft Module or remove the fuse and then do the tests.

So, w/ignition off, disconnect the PCM 60 pin connector and then test between connector's Pins 20, 40, 60 and 16 to a clean ground. all should be Zero ohms or close on a diggie meter.

by Richard
The sensitivity of a vehicle’s computer to impure ground signals can be downright annoying. This 60-pin Ford PCM has major grounds at pins 20, 40, 60 and 16, which is the ignition ground that is fed to the PCM through the harness. It originates at the Thick Film Ignition (TFI) module mounting screw. Pin 49 once was a ground input, but in 1991 it had become a signal return output to the O2 sensors. I disconnected the PCM and checked the ground at these pins and the power to pins 37 and 57. With my logic probe and multimeter, the grounds and powers all appeared to be fine, but a low-impedance test light actually works better for this type of test.

Having disconnected the Spark Output Connector (SPOUT), I had eliminated that circuit. While I’m sure it can kill the spark if shorted to power or ground, I realized in retrospect that the SPOUT just couldn’t cause the TFI module to fire the coil. The PIP circuit had to be the guilty path.
It doesn’t take much current on an unloaded circuit to illuminate the LED in a logic probe or fire up some decent looking numbers on a high impedance meter. The test light, on the other hand, requires some current flow to heat up the bulb, and if the light won’t burn, you can bet the computer can’t do much work with the ground or power being checked. I’ve actually been led astray on pinpoint tests by decent looking numbers on a multimeter, only to find that the circuit in question wouldn’t even burn a light bulb. Enough about that.
See less See more
If i do the test with the ignition switch off, headlights off, and/or door closed--it'll read damned near to 0 ohms. So, in that aspect--it passes. However, if i open the door or open the hood or anything like that (which the test doesn't tell me NOT to do) it'll fail. So IMO, by removing the fuse or closing the door or doing whatever i have to do to shed the load, I'm "falsely" giving the box a check mark when it needs to have an exclamation point. feel me? I will do that today though; I will get that resistance to and continue with the test. Maybe another part of the test will fail, and It'll point me in a similar direction. Thanks for your help buddy.
While I’m sure it can kill the spark if shorted to power or ground, I realized in retrospect that the SPOUT just couldn’t cause the TFI module to fire the coil. The PIP circuit had to be the guilty path.
I'm a little hungover from last night so I might not be firing on all 8 cylinders, but I don't understand Richard's statement "the pip circuit had to be the guilty path". Can you help me digest that one?
81 - 100 of 216 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.