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Discussion Starter #1
Hey all,

I'm having the intermittent starter run on issue. The starter will sometimes stay engaged after the key is released or even when turned to the off position.

The starter is new.

I have tried two relays now with the latest being a motorcraft replay.

I have seen conflicting info on which way to wire the relay. This is how mine was wired when I got it and is wired now.



My 85 is wired the same way.

However this tech video indicates the bar and start wired should be on opposite to what mine is.

https://youtu.be/uGGTaOQkkAk

Anyone have a definitive answer?


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Addicted to Junk
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I can look when i get home tonight. Whats with all the little extra wires? Mine only has one or two iirc, but its a stripped down, high altitude base model with no luxury functions besides heat. @miesk5 might have a wiring diagram.

PS: what does "6L up" mean in your bronco info? Ah nvm, i assume its the six litre upgrade
 

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Hey all,

I'm having the intermittent starter run on issue. The starter will sometimes stay engaged after the key is released or even when turned to the off position.

The starter is new.

I have tried two relays now with the latest being a motorcraft replay.

I have seen conflicting info on which way to wire the relay. This is how mine was wired when I got it and is wired now.

Anyone have a definitive answer?
It doesn't matter which of the large studs are used for the battery or starter feed wires on a solenoid that does not have an "I" terminal.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks guys.

The extra wires are rear lights, fuse box, and to the ignition control module I think.

Yes on the 6l up-ran out of characters!

I'll try flipping them and see I get any better results.

Bendix might be sticking in the starter causing the circuit to stay on????


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Yo BIG!
1986 Bronco/F Series Electrical & Vacuum Troubleshooting Manual (EVTM), partial by ​​Gary includes starter and relay wiring diagram, troubleshooting, etc..

Starter rotation with key off is usually caused by its starter relay due to its contacts being welded together, a bad or loose/misadjusted ignition switch, or damaged steering column actuator rod .

Does ignition Key have the usual spring back from Start to Run?
The ignition switch, mounted inside column's shroud is where the spring-back is provided, but the actuator(s) is often damaged. Ensure switch is securely mounted first.

If battery is disconnected now, be ready to test for battery voltage on that red/light blue wire with ignition switch off. Re-connect battery with jumper cables, but be ready to remove.
If it has battery voltage suspect: ignition switch (not the ignition key's cylinder if it operates well,) or its actuator rod inside steeriing column.

If it doesn't crank and is intermittent, our own Paul Bunyon of Big Northern Broncos, Sixlitre described a no crank issue that involved the actuator rod issue; "...He turned the key on to crank (nothing happened), reached low on the column, just below the dash, and shoved his pick tool into the column and pulled down. That thing not only rolled over but it started...SO IN CONCLUSION REACH UNDER YOUR DASH AND PULL DOWN ON THAT COLUMN SWITCH ACTUATOR ROD (with the key on) AND SHE'LL LIKELY START RIGHT UP. He told me yes the switches die but they can also "walk" up the column and and get so loose the rod coming down from the key will not actuate the column switch (it's also a sign the $11 switch is about to die). He also recommended I change that pot metal actuator rod assembly (Ford # E9TZ*3E715*B, $16.32 CDN). This took him half an hour and if I'd been able to do it I estimate even after my install lesson would have taken me most of the day..."
Source: by Sixlitre (Malcolm H, Eddie Bauer) in an 86 at FSB
I won't suggest that you try to manually manipulate actuator if starter rotates with key off because of possible damage to: starter, pinion, flywheel etc. But you can disconnect battery, hook up a meter or 12vdc test lamp and test for continuity on the red/light blue wire Circuit.

Ignition Switch Mechanical Test
NOTE: Accessories such as radio, starter, etc. that fail to operate with the key in RUN, or that remain on when the key is turned off, may be the result of a misadjusted ignition switch rather than a malfunctioning ignition switch. Refer to Ignition Switch test and adjustment below..

NOTE: Do not apply lubricant to the inside of the ignition switch.
Test the ignition system mechanical operation by rotating the ignition switch lock cylinder through all positions of the ignition switch. The movement should feel smooth with no sticking or binding. The ignition key should return from the START position back to the ON position without assistance (spring return). If sticking or binding is encountered, check for the following:
burrs on the ignition switch lock cylinder
binding ignition switch lock cylinder
shroud rubbing against ignition switch lock cylinder
burrs or foreign material around the rack-and-pinion actuator in the housing of the ignition switch lock cylinder
insufficient lube on actuator
binding ignition switch
Ford recommends PTFE grease in column. Use powdered graphite in Lock Cylinder Slot.

Ignition Lock Cylinder Adjustment & Ignition Switch Pin-Out & Logic Test
by Seabronc
..

So the new parts are ok and if wiring is ok, have to assume the rod.
Ignition Actuator Replacement on an '85 w/tilt
by Chris B. @ http://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/23-technical-write-ups/70454-ignition-actuator-replacement-85-w-tilt.html
...

Also for posterity:
Starter Relay Ground Wire Addition & Location Video in an 86
Source: by @JKossarides at 1986 Ford Bronco my flip video library video | SuperMotors.net
..

Will try to clean this reply up later, had a long PT session and now a headache.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Yo BIG!

1986 Bronco/F Series Electrical & Vacuum Troubleshooting Manual (EVTM), partial by ​​Gary includes starter and relay wiring diagram, troubleshooting, etc..



Starter rotation with key off is usually caused by its starter relay due to its contacts being welded together, a bad or loose/misadjusted ignition switch, or damaged steering column actuator rod .



Does ignition Key have the usual spring back from Start to Run? YES


The ignition switch, mounted inside column's shroud is where the spring-back is provided, but the actuator(s) is often damaged. Ensure switch is securely mounted first.



If battery is disconnected now, be ready to test for battery voltage on that red/light blue wire with ignition switch off. Re-connect battery with jumper cables, but be ready to remove.

If it has battery voltage suspect: ignition switch (not the ignition key's cylinder if it operates well,) or its actuator rod inside steeriing column.

NO VOLTAGE TO SWITCH WIRE AT RELAY SIDE WHEN KEY IS OFF



If it doesn't crank and is intermittent, our own Paul Bunyon of Big Northern Broncos, Sixlitre described a no crank issue that involved the actuator rod issue; "...He turned the key on to crank (nothing happened), reached low on the column, just below the dash, and shoved his pick tool into the column and pulled down. That thing not only rolled over but it started...SO IN CONCLUSION REACH UNDER YOUR DASH AND PULL DOWN ON THAT COLUMN SWITCH ACTUATOR ROD (with the key on) AND SHE'LL LIKELY START RIGHT UP. He told me yes the switches die but they can also "walk" up the column and and get so loose the rod coming down from the key will not actuate the column switch (it's also a sign the $11 switch is about to die). He also recommended I change that pot metal actuator rod assembly (Ford # E9TZ*3E715*B, $16.32 CDN). This took him half an hour and if I'd been able to do it I estimate even after my install lesson would have taken me most of the day..."

Source: by Sixlitre (Malcolm H, Eddie Bauer) in an 86 at FSB

I won't suggest that you try to manually manipulate actuator if starter rotates with key off because of possible damage to: starter, pinion, flywheel etc. But you can disconnect battery, hook up a meter or 12vdc test lamp and test for continuity on the red/light blue wire Circuit.


ENGINE CRANKS FINE WITH KEY


Ignition Switch Mechanical Test

NOTE: Accessories such as radio, starter, etc. that fail to operate with the key in RUN, or that remain on when the key is turned off, may be the result of a misadjusted ignition switch rather than a malfunctioning ignition switch. Refer to Ignition Switch test and adjustment below..


NOT AN ISSUE


NOTE: Do not apply lubricant to the inside of the ignition switch.

Test the ignition system mechanical operation by rotating the ignition switch lock cylinder through all positions of the ignition switch. The movement should feel smooth with no sticking or binding. The ignition key should return from the START position back to the ON position without assistance (spring return). If sticking or binding is encountered, check for the following:

burrs on the ignition switch lock cylinder

binding ignition switch lock cylinder

shroud rubbing against ignition switch lock cylinder

burrs or foreign material around the rack-and-pinion actuator in the housing of the ignition switch lock cylinder

insufficient lube on actuator

binding ignition switch



Ignition Lock Cylinder Adjustment & Ignition Switch Pin-Out & Logic Test

by Seabronc

..



So the new parts are ok and if wiring is ok, have to assume the rod.

Ignition Actuator Replacement on an '85 w/tilt

by Chris B. @ http://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/23-technical-write-ups/70454-ignition-actuator-replacement-85-w-tilt.html

...



Also for posterity:

Starter Relay Ground Wire Addition & Location Video in an 86

Source: by JKossarides ("The Bronco", Jean) at 1986 Ford Bronco my flip video library video | SuperMotors.net

..



Will try to clean this replyup later, had a long PT session and now a headache.


Thanks @miesk5

Key operation is okay. No voltage at relay end of switch wire when KEY is not in start position. Relay is grounded to fender.

My gut tells me that the relay is operating correctly but some sort of draw is causing it to start to stick/weld together.

I read last night about the two operations of the starter when voltage is applied. I don't recall the specifics but 1 the gear is flipped out by the solenoid and 2 something with the bendix and if the starter is drawing too much power it will stick in the on position until power is removed from the battery side of the relay.

I'm going to have the starter draw tested this afternoon. I'm also going to test the wire from the relay to the starter while starting; my understanding is that a multimeter read from one end to the other should be .2 or less.

If we assume the key ignition mech is working correctly and there is no voltage at the start wire when KEY is off then something is causing the relay plunger to stick. As I understand it that means not enough voltage from the battery or too much draw from the starter.

Any other ideas?




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Yo,
I can't find the load specs.

Thinking of what would be causing just intermittent issue and not full time.
Will post if I can cone upmwith anything new. If no reply, then my headache is worse.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks. Hope your head feels better. I get migraines myself so I know just where you are coming from.

I had the starter load tested and it's pulling 100-120amps so I don't think that's the issue.

Maybe I just got lucky and found two crappy relays

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Here is a pic of mine. Sorry, SM likes to rotate my pics. 85, 300 i6. The black wire on the right (top) goes to the starter. The two bright red small wires are led lights.

 

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The two relays are indeed a jbg heavy duty headlight harness. They run a pair of h4 conversion lamps. Output is vastly improved over the stock sealed beams. AbandonedBronco has a write-up on the harness, if interested.
 

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No difference, other than the "I" terminal is not used with TFI.

The "I" terminal sends a temporary full 12v with ignition start only. In Duraspark Ignition vehicles, it is used to bypass a ballast resistor to the coil for full 12v starting power, which then reverts to 7v-8v reduced by the resistor for normal engine running after starting. The reduced voltage keeps the can type coil from overheating preventing premature failure.


S = Start (Keyed Primary Ignition Switch)

M = Motor (Cable to the Starter)

B = Battery (Cable from your Battery+)

I = Ignition (Typically to the Coil+ on carburated engines)

***The Relay is grounded to the fender through the mounting bolt.



If you do not require the "I" terminal, don't use it. Everything else is the same. Just remember that the "S" post is always the silver post on the newer type relay.




 

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Discussion Starter #15
I took off the MC with 3 studs and put the AC Delco with 4 studs back on. The MC did it almost every time and the AC D only does it every few days or couple of weeks.

While that issue is simmering;

I have a can coil but nothing hooked up to i stud - just run a wire from i to the coil + in addition to the one at the coil + currently?


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In addition, my 85 that i showed the pic of is running the older duraspark ignition, not the feedback system.
 

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I had this problem years ago.... Heres the solution. Since I see your cables are new, double check that your connection to the starter is CLEAN, if it is it's your starter pulling too much power. Mine was so bad I would actually MELT the solenoid. I replaced all my cables and when I had my bronco in the shop for inspection, it stuck and the tech stood there like he didn't know what to do. By the time I told him to get a 1/2" wrench to disconnect the battery my starter had cooked. I had a spare new solenoid in the councole, I made the shop buy me a starter because the Tech's first reaction should have been to disconnect my battery. After the starter was replaced I no longer had a problem with the solenoid.

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When the starter run on condition happens, how do you get it to stop? The next time it shows up you could try a couple of things to narrow it down:


  • Bang on the solenoid. Side of your fist, back of a screwdriver. Hard enough to give it a good jar, but not so hard as to do it or you any damage. When one sticks, a lot of times a solid hit will knock it loose. If that stops the starter, then it points to a bad solenoid. It is not uncommon for a new one to be sticky.
  • Pull the "S" wire off of the solenoid. If that stops it, look to ignition switch problems or shorted wiring in the small circuit from the ignition circuit.
 
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