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Discussion Starter #1
OK so i changed the solenoid and my truck wont start and i couldnt even jump the solenoid 2 start it, so i installed the old one and i can now jump start it with the solenoid!

when i turn the keys 2 start it it doesnt even crank!

So i took it 2 advanced auto and the guy said that if it starts when i jump the solenoid then its definitely not then starter or the solenoid!

He said that its either the ignition switch or there is a bad wire somewhere and he also said to clean the battery contacts (which i will be doing 2moro after work!!)

My question is Is this info the guy gave me correct and is there anything else one1 can add!!

Now i know the ignition switch is in the steering column how do i go about checking that?

...Just to add i get a reading on a meter when i checked the 3rd connection(the wire that plugs into the tiny top bolt) to my solenoid! (The auto guy told me to check that but i forgot why or what that means)..

thanx in advance!!
 

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Redneck Romeo
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If you're getting voltage at the small wire, that means that everything from your column to the relay is working correctly. That wire comes from your steering column (it's what triggers the starter relay when you turn the key).

So, if you have voltage at the small wire, and you can jump the relay and start the truck, sounds to me like your relay is bad. I know you bought a new one and it didn't work, but parts store relays are notorious for being bad out of the box.

Also, just because you can jump the two big relay terminals doesn't mean your relay is good. It still has to be able to connect the two big terminals when you trigger it with voltage at the small terminal.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
OK thanx!! good info!! So in other words my solenoid is bad??

Also just a side note wen i 1st tried to put in the new solenoid and jump start it. It gave off a few tiny sparks and nothing not even crankage and then i went to turn of the ignition and i noticed it was dead no power what so ever no radio no dash lights total power outage!!

I let it sit and the next day the power was back on. So i re-installed the old solenoid and there was no power for a while then the power came back on and i was able 2 jump start again, Now would that be because of a dirty battery terminal connection??

And where would you suggest i buy a good Solenoid?? Ford Dealer maybe??

Thanx!!
 

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Redneck Romeo
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Cleaning your battery cables and terminals will help quite a bit.

Call the dealership and see if they can even get the relays any more...some parts are obsolete.

If you can't find it at a dealership (or can't afford it...), I'd recommend NAPA or O'Reilly. I've always had good luck with their electrical parts. However, like I mentioned before, aftermarket relays are notorious for being bad. Sometimes it's a matter of buying one, trying it, and if it doesn't work, exchanging it.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
ok ill check that out 2moro!

..Also there is like 7 different wires looped on one of the 2 main solenoid connections is that normal.??? (dont knw what they are for, but it looks wierd 2 me)

The other 1 just has the wire coming from the positive (i think not sure) battery terminal!
 

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Man there have been so many starting issues on here lately.....if you check the threads I know you can find some more info...hell i know I have commented on several of these myself...many many many times it is caused by a bad connection...also...many starter solenoids look the same and have different current capacities relating to the starter you have..make sure you have the right one or you can burn up a new starter solenoid on the first crank!
 

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If you can jump that solenoid/relay whatever the hell it is on the fender well that means more often than not it IS that relay. Whole point of jumping it is to bypass it. Clean your battery terminals. Make sure all the ground wires have good contact. Make sure wire going to starter has a clean contact and is tight. Take the solenoid back and get a new one. It could ignition switch under the steering wheel. Could also be actuator rod that contacts the ignition switch is bound up or broken.
 

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95 truck issues

i just got new gaskets and new starter and it wont turn over and it makes a high pitch winding sound. does anybody know anything about it?
 

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Driving Stuff Henry Built
-90 xlt, 351w, e4od, man 1356, 3.55, sag, warn hubs, 35s. -73, 400, np435, d20j twin, 35s
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Let's clarify this. There are 2 ways to jump a solenoid, & they accomplish different things. If you look at the pic below, there are 2 large terminals & 1 small terminal on the face of the solenoid. The small terminal connects to the circuit that comes from the ignition switch. The large terminal on the left connects to the starter. The large terminal on the right connects to positive on the battery, & also serves as a junction block to distribute 12v to other components.

Bypass Test -If you jump between the 2 large terminals, it bypasses the solenoid completely. It is a good test to see if the starter works, if the engine will turn over, if the battery & cables are good, etc. It does not test the solenoid.

Solenoid Test -If you jump between the small terminal & the large terminal that is connected to the battery, it will cause the solenoid to engage if it is working, grounded properly & all the stuff tested in the Bypass Test is ok.

Results
-Engine doesn't crank with the Bypass Test -Something is wrong in the large circuit that includes the battery, battery cables & starter. Measure the battery voltage, check the cables to be sure that they are clean, tight & aren't damaged or corroded. If that all checks out ok, the starter can be removed & tested. Also, with the key off & coil wire grounded, the engine can be turned over with a breaker bar to ensure that it isn't seized.

-Engine cranks with the Bypass Test, but not with the Solenoid Test -The solenoid is bad or has a bad ground. Repair or replace.

-Engine cranks with the Solenoid Test. Everything works in the large circuit that includes the battery, battery cables, starter, & solenoid. Something is wrong in the small circuit that includes the ignition switch & the park/neutral safety switch. Continue testing that small circuit.

90 Solenoid (Yeah, yeah, starter relay :rolleyes:)
 

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Driving Stuff Henry Built
-90 xlt, 351w, e4od, man 1356, 3.55, sag, warn hubs, 35s. -73, 400, np435, d20j twin, 35s
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i just got new gaskets and new starter and it wont turn over and it makes a high pitch winding sound. does anybody know anything about it?
It sounds like your starter is not engaging. There's a little gear that needs to pop out & engage the flywheel. The whirring sound usually indicates that it's not engaging like it should. If it's more of a screeching sound then it may be grinding against the flywheel. It might be a bad starter, or the starter might be installed a little crooked or loose. Check the starter itself to make sure it's in straight & tight. If the little gear grinds against the flywheel, it can ruin the flywheel. If the starter is mounted correctly, remove & bench test it to see if the gear extends like it should.

 

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man it could be anything that everyone else said or it could be that u need to trace those wires and find out what they all go to there definitly shouldnt be that many wires bunched up on there. that solinoid is made to put a certon amount of curent to ur starter and thats it some one before u prolly just thought it was a good positive source to run a bunch of crap off of like lights,radio,CB,electric fan, ur starter relay is prolly bad u need to find out what wires go on what side u may have accidently hook up ur wires on the wrong studs ive done that before. mine is a 93 and i only have two wires on both studes on that relay one side takes power in and the other side sends power out. the little wire on tope energizes the solinoid to make the conection and power flows. everyone on hear is going to tell u to check ur dam slider in the column i guess at one point some one had this problem and made a big deal out of it. pretty rare though that this is the problem. start basic. usually if u have to jump the solinoid with a screw driver then ur solinoid is bad. if it is known good then trace the small wire on the top back. kinda hard to tell u the color combo on it sense urs is a diffrent year. but ive seen that wire get chaffed and presented this same problem to me. also dont go running to the parts store and buy a bunch of unnessasary parts get a test light or volt meter and shoot ur wires. test them for power and ground. its not hard and the hanes or chilton manuals are pretty good at walking u through step by step barney style. good luck and let us know what u find.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
THANX ALOT GUYS GREAT INFO!! I wanna pop tha hood and get my grease monkey on but this damn rain is killin me!

Im gonna upload a couple of pics of under the hood n stuff but in the mean time i think im gonna start with the ignition switch!! (because from what i was told i wouldnt be able 2 jump start it if the starter wasnt workin!! and the previous owner said he thaught it could be the solenoid or the ignition switch)

I knw its somewhere around the steering column i have no idea hat it looks or than a couple of different images i saw on google search..
I see something on the top part of the brake pedal tha kinda looks like it but im not sure..

Can some1 tell me or show me a pic of where its located and how 2 get to it!????

Thanx!!
 

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Redneck Romeo
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IMO, I wouldn't fool with the ignition switch at all. The switch obviously isn't a problem if you have +12V at the small wire on the top of the relay.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Well i did the Bypass Test and the truck started up as normal!
then i did the Solenoid Test and the engine was cranking but it didnt start i dont knw if thats whats supposed 2 happen!!?


Oh yea when i tested the small plug on the relay i only got a reading when the meter was in x1K ohms mode (not 2 familiar with using meters) and it was kinda bouncing up and down when i had my girl turn the ignition 2 start and even when she had it in the off position!

Is it supposed 2 give a steady reading? or is it supposed 2 be bouncing up and down like that???


I dont knw if thats good or what!??


PS im guessing getting 2 the switch is a bitch isnt it??
 

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IMO, I wouldn't fool with the ignition switch at all. The switch obviously isn't a problem if you have +12V at the small wire on the top of the relay.
12volts with no load only requires one strand of wire still connected. The question is what voltage is there during the crank cycle.

If you have taken a small jumper wire form the battery positive to the "s" terminal on the fender wall solenoid, and the motor spun, then the solenoid should be good. Which would lead me to looking back through the wire connected to the "s" lug, to the neutral safety switch, to the key switch.

Proper thing to do is a voltage drop test, I will post the instructions up in the next post.
 

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Voltage drop testing is one of the simpliest tests in the world to do, but often is over looked. Here is a detailed explanation of how to perform the test.

You will need a volt meter, prefferable a digital one. The help of a friend will make testing a lot easier as well. And possibly a set of booster cables if the circuit you are going to test is really long.

A few things that you should know first. When you use a volt meter it displays the difference in voltage from one lead to another. So when you place it across the battery on the + and - posts, and it reads 12.79volts, it means that the difference in voltage between the two posts is 12.79volts.

All the circuits in your car complete themsleves at the battery, specifically between the + and - plates inside the battery. So any extra resistance outside the battery, any where in the circuit is a bad thing.

Industry stanard for automotive production cars is a .5 total voltage drop in any system. Except maybe your starting system, as the old style starters just draw a ton of amperage. The .5 is divided up as .3 positive and .2 negative. So when we are testing the positive leg of the circuit we will want to see less than .3 of a drop, and less than .2 on the negative side. This is while the device is in use. i.e. if you are checking your lights, they need to be on while doing the check.

So here is how to do the test. Put one lead on one point of the circuit, and the other lead at another point. Say at both ends of a wire. The meter should read zero. Now turn on the device. The reading on the meter is how much the voltage drops between the two leads. If it is on both ends of a wire, then it is how much the voltage drop down that wire. If it is over .3 + or .2 - it needs to be replaced.

Here is an example testing the starter system on an older Ford. It is slow cranking, with a new starter and battery, so we will check for voltage drop issues. First thing we do is put one lead on the positive terminal of the battery, and the other lead on main post of the starter. Try starting it and we get a reading of 1.5volts. So we know there is a 1.5 volt drop on the positive side of the circuit.

So leaving the lead on the battery, we move the other lead up to where the main battery cable from the starter goes to the fenderwall solenoid. We repeat the start, and still get a reading of 1.5volts. So we know that cable is not the problem. (Could have also put the leads on each end of the wire to determine this, but takes longer to do the test).

Next you put the lead on the solenoid's post, and try the test. Still 1.5volts, so we know the connection between the post and the starter cable) is good. So we move the lead to the other post of the fenderwall solenoid, and repeat the test. Now we get a reading of .5 volts on the meter, instead of the 1.5volts. So it would appear that we are losing 1 volt through the solenoid. To confirm that we can put a lead on each post of the solenoid, and try starting it. In this case it does confirm that we dropping 1 volt through the solenoid.

But we still have .5 volts drop. So now we check the cable end at the solenoid, to the battery post. It reads .5volts still. So we then go to the battery post to the cable end at the battery itself. We get a reading still of .5 . So that would mean that between the battery post and the cable end we are losing .5volts, in other words, we have a bad connection.

So you replace the solenoid, clean the battery cable end at the battery. Also preventive clean the solenoid cable ends too. Test the complete system down to the starter again, and get a reading of .2 volts. So we are happy. Moving over ot the negative side. You move one lead to negative post of the battery, and another lead to the body of the starter.

You start the motor and getting a reading of .7 on volt meter. Now you just follow the ground path back every where there is a connection. So first you would go from the negative post to the bell housing, then block, then the ground strap clamp at the block, then to the frame rail, etc, etc. Where ever the drop goes away, then the what ever is between your last point and the new point is likely where the drop is. Always double check it by actually putting the leads on both ends of the item being tested (both ends of a wire, between a clamp and bolt, two posts on a solenoid or relay, two posts on a kill switch, etc).

It should take less than a couple of minutes to check a complete circuit. If the circuit is really long, say with the battery in the trunk. You can clamp a booster cable to the battery, and then to the one lead of the meter, thus extending the lead's length. You can use a small wire even, just booster cables are readily available.

Now when my youngest daughter was 5 or 6 I taught her how to do this test in less than 5 minutes. When we do seminars with licensed mechanics with years of experience, it takes 1/2 hour to an hour to explain it. i.e. do not over think it, it is really, really, easy. You should do it on any circuit you install, and it does not hurt to go through your car, daily driver included every now and then.

If people did they would have found that the GM hot start in the 70's was mostly because the 4ga starter wire needed to be 1ga starter wire. Or late 80's, early 90's GM pickups (and others) could have almost an extra whole volt in their ssytem if they replace the too small charge wire, as it dropped .7 to .8 before going to the battery. Or Ford Super Duty's eating starters because the main battery cable corroded about 12" back from the starter. The end at the starter looked great, but lots had 5 volt drops down them.

Hope this all made sense, if not I will try and clarify below.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
WOW THATS ALOT!! THANK U!!

Let me start 1st by say this: I put the meter on the battery and tried just about all the settings and got no reading whatsoever!! what am i doing wrong??

Should i be grounding one of the meters tips (the positive or negative) and then have one tip on the battery or both ends of the meter should be on the positve and negative terminals of the battery???
 

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Well i did the Bypass Test and the truck started up as normal!
then i did the Solenoid Test and the engine was cranking but it didnt start i dont knw if thats whats supposed 2 happen!!?


Oh yea when i tested the small plug on the relay i only got a reading when the meter was in x1K ohms mode (not 2 familiar with using meters) and it was kinda bouncing up and down when i had my girl turn the ignition 2 start and even when she had it in the off position!

Is it supposed 2 give a steady reading? or is it supposed 2 be bouncing up and down like that???


I dont knw if thats good or what!??


PS im guessing getting 2 the switch is a bitch isnt it??
when your on the resistance setting your meter will bounce around if voltage is present...you can only read resistance (ohms) when no voltage is present...always check for the presence of voltage first when measuring anything!
 

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WOW THATS ALOT!! THANK U!!

Let me start 1st by say this: I put the meter on the battery and tried just about all the settings and got no reading whatsoever!! what am i doing wrong??

Should i be grounding one of the meters tips (the positive or negative) and then have one tip on the battery or both ends of the meter should be on the positve and negative terminals of the battery???
Set the meter on the 20volt or higher DC scale. There is an AC and DC on most meters, you have to be on DC.

Put the positive lead on the positive terminal, and the negative lead on the negative terminal. If you have no reading, then wire brush the terminals and try again. If you still have no reading, try the meter on another vehicle or small battery. If it reads that battery, your original battery has a broken interplate connector. If there is no reading on the other vehicle, then you have an issue with the meter itself
 

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WOW THATS ALOT!! THANK U!!

Let me start 1st by say this: I put the meter on the battery and tried just about all the settings and got no reading whatsoever!! what am i doing wrong??

Should i be grounding one of the meters tips (the positive or negative) and then have one tip on the battery or both ends of the meter should be on the positve and negative terminals of the battery???
you put one lead on each battery post to measure the voltage of the battery...your meter should have a range selection that says VDC or a straight line with a broken or dotted line above it...AC would be the setting that has the sine wave ...if your meter has more than two holes for your leads to plug into make sure the leads are in the rigt holes(terminals)....you can also read voltage with your battery connected by reading between the positive post and your frame...either way you should have on or around 12vdc.... am confused with your problem at large though...you said you did the "bypass test" and started your truck correct? but the "solenoid test" did not start your truck?....when you turn the key on do you here your fuel pump humming?...if you got that your good with the key lock.....and if you can start your truck up by jumping it of with a screwdriver at the starter solenoid then it sounds like a bad solenoid/ connection there
 
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