Bronco Forum - Full Size Ford Bronco Forum banner

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi Folks,

Newbie here, I am always grateful for your help and could really use it now. (Before posting I ready other forums and tried what seemed to apply to my truck. No luck.)

For the last year my 91 has been having issues starting. Had it in storage for a about three months and rats made a nest in the engine. Who knows what they chewed? But it started right up, and I drove it home. The next day it would not start, and I took it to a shop. Paid $500 for a new fuel pump. They called me to come get it, but when I arrived it would not start. They tinkered and next day I went back, drove halfway home and it died. I sat on the side of the road for an hour and lo and behold it eventually started. Took it back to the shop, asked them to change fuel filter, and it ran well for a few months.
Over the past year it would refuse to start every few months but would work after I just unplugged and reinserted the fuel pump relay.

Flash forward to present day: Won’t start with key but I hear the fuel pump come on. Starts right up by jumping the starter solenoid with a screwdriver.

---THINGS I’VE REPLACED: Fuel Pump, Fuel Filter, Starter Solenoid, Fuel Pump Relay---

I’d appreciate any suggestions as to where to go from here. I bought a multimeter but don’t know what I need to be testing, even after watching youtube videos. Many many thanks to the pro’s on here who help us, newbies, out.
163817
 

·
The Tennessee Warden
96 XL, 5.8L, E4OD, BW1356, 4.56 gears
Joined
·
3,517 Posts
Could be something with the ignition wire from the key cylinder to the solenoid. Could be a broken ignition actuator inside the column also - common problem. If you have continuity from the ignition switch to the solenoid, my guess would be the actuator. Does the key cylinder spring back from “start” to “run” pretty well or no?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Just checked and the key cylinder does indeed seem to spring back fine. Would your next step be to try to identify with a multimeter or start replacing parts one at a time?
 

·
The Tennessee Warden
96 XL, 5.8L, E4OD, BW1356, 4.56 gears
Joined
·
3,517 Posts
One of the wires that push onto the front of the solenoid is the one that triggers the relay to send power to the starter - it’s smaller. Use a test light and ground the clip to a good ground and probe the plug that pushes into the post. Have someone turn the key to start. If it doesn’t light, then you could have a bad ignition switch. If it lights, I’d check all your battery cables and grounds, remembering that the solenoid to the fender is a ground also.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Thanks for the help. I'll have to buy a test light tomorrow. I did get under the car to look at the starter. I now see there is a loose wire just hanging there. Not 100% sure what it came off of, but this type of starter looks like it only has one terminal. Perhaps it's the line between the starter and the relay (as circled below?)
163839
 

·
Registered
1984, 300 L6, smogless, manual 3speed with overdrive.
Joined
·
1,614 Posts
That looks like it could be a ground? Couple different angle pics might help
 
  • Like
Reactions: canuckistan97

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,717 Posts
You have whats known as a direct drive starter, it is indeed a one wire unit. That can't be the power wire you're seeing as it provides all power to the starter and wouldn't start without it. I can also see the power wire connected to the starter, it appears to be wrapped in heat tape or something. If it starts every time you jump the solenoid then you likely have an issue in the circuit that supplies power to the solenoid from the ignition switch.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
290 Posts
Thanks for the help. I'll have to buy a test light tomorrow. I did get under the car to look at the starter. I now see there is a loose wire just hanging there. Not 100% sure what it came off of, but this type of starter looks like it only has one terminal. Perhaps it's the line between the starter and the relay (as circled below?) View attachment 163839
That wire is the starter ground wire... it went to the little bolt that is barely visible on the top side of the starter motor.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
25,359 Posts
Yo 91Problems,
164000
164001
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
-Thanks everyone, per @MS88Bronc suggestion I bought a test light and have learned a ton in the past week. Turns out there is no power in the S-cable (red/light-blue) leading into my starter solenoid.
-Per the suggestion of @miesk5 I was able to easily start the car by jumpering this terminal to the battery.
-Per my Haynes manual (which helpful but not very newbie friendly) I do indeed have 12v leading to my Neutral Safety Switch, but cannot understand their instruction about how to test the switch itself by jumping the circuit.
-Ignition Actuator appear appears to be intact BUT: When I turn the key I can only hear the fuel pump go on 50% if the time. However, if I use a pair of pliers to push in the ignition actuator I can hear it 100% of the time, but never get the car to turn on. So maybe it isn't adjusted right?
- I revise my earlier comments about the key cylinder: It does NOT spring back from "start" to "run" very well. Needs a little help.

CURRENT STATUS: Confused. Would greatly appreciate suggestions about how to check the ignition switch or anything else anyone suggests looking at next. Would love to find the problem, but also enjoying learning through the process. Thanks!
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
25,359 Posts
Yo 91,
When you turn the key to "RUN/START" and there's no spring resistance feeling it usually because the actuator inside steering column is broken or ignition switch is loose.
Overview; "...The ignition rod is attached to the upper ignition actuator by a 3/32 x 38 roll pin ($0.12 each) and the rod needs to be straight so it travels enough to trigger the igniton switch but it's a chore to take it off as you need to remove the steering wheel and tear it down to the (Tilt or Non-Tilt) knuckle, usually down when you replace a broken upper ignition actuator. The ignition switch located on the lower part of the steering column has slots so it can be adjusted by loosening the 2 -7/16 nuts and move it up or down but a lot depends on what's wrong up top with some of the other parts, ie: ignition rod, key cylinder, lower igniton actuator and upper igniton actuator. These parts are timed so when you turn the key to RUN they all need to move forward/downward so the rod triggers the igniton switch to START the BKO..."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Replaced the ignition switch and key cylinder. Key now turning better, and adjusted position of ignition switch now engages fuel pump every time. However, the car still doesn't start and now will not shift into neutral. I can get it into reverse but that is as far as it goes. The brake lights work and fiddling with the brake light switch in all obvious ways will not let the truck shift. Any thoughts much appreciated.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
I was able to start the car today by bypassing the neutral safety switch. Still only able to shift from Park to Reverse. I ordered a new switch and will see if that fixes the issues.
 

·
Registered
1996 Bronco Eddie Bauer 5.8
Joined
·
1 Posts
I had been having similar issues with intermittent no start and engine dying while driving. Replaced ICM couple days ago and had been starting fine. Then after returning home, parked and turned key off, bronco still running. Key spinning cylinder back and forth freely, but not doing anything. Pulled fuel pump relay to shut engine down. Purchased new ignition lock and ignition switch. Hopefully that'll fix it. Prior to this happening, I could pull the key out while in the run position. I'll be watching to see how yours pans out.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
25,359 Posts
Yo 91Problems,
I assume you have an E4OD.

Try a Self Test for Diagnostic Trouble Codes by my pal, BroncoJoe19 @ Code Reader.....

One possible code is DTC 634; Neutral Safety Switch Circuit Open; "...In some cases all of us at one time or another have had to "jiggle' the column shifter to get the vehicle to start because over time things losen up from DD useage.....in the Haynes Manual transmission section and www.broncolinks.com there's a diagram referring to "Point A" which is the column shift linkage and the transmission tab. A sure way to correct the "jiggling" is to go underneath the BKO on the drivers side and LOSEN the "nut" on column shift linkage and tranny tab JUST ENOUGH to click the tranny tab all the way back until it stops then 2 clicks forward and tighten the "nut".....now the column shift linkage and transmission are in sync when you go thru the grears, assuming the steering column is in resonable condition this should help correct that problem."
Source: by JKossarides ("The Bronco" ) ... RIP JEAN ... at FSB

617 - 1-2 shift error. "...if this code persists and you have noticed shift problems while driving, its going to be a shift servo inside the E4OD tha has failed. (Computer needs to control when the tranny is shifting)..."


Low Transmission Fluid Level And Or Shift And Or Engagement Concerns TSB 97-12-13 for 87-96 Bronco & many others; "...may have low fluid level and/or may have either a shift concern and/or an engagement concern. This may be caused by transmission fluid leaking from the transmission into the transfer case through the transfer case input seal. Replace the transfer case input seal..."
Source: by Ford

164761
164762
 

·
Registered
1982 FSB 302, c6, NP208 manual, manual hubs, manual windows, 3.00 gears LSD rear, 235/75/15 HK ATM
Joined
·
174 Posts
Ford issued a recall in the 90's for the key switch. Every ford that has had the recall performed takes the same key. I don't know if 91's were part of this recall or not, I had a '93 that had it done as well as many friends. I would think if it was Miesk5 would have posted it up. Something to look into though.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
9,665 Posts
Interesting problem. Looks like you're doing a good job troubleshooting the problem. If I were you, I would replace all that battery wiring and the starter, they both look like they have seen better days.

Keep working the S terminal issue.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
25,359 Posts
Yo HarryGnuts,
Thanks for noting possibler recalls.
Here are the only ignition related recalls for 91 Bronco.

Recall, Ignition Switch FSA 95S28 for 88-91 Bronco & F Series & many others
Excerpt; "All 1988 - 1990 Model Year Escort
All 1988 Model Year EXP
All 1988 - 1993 Model Year Mustang built through September 30, 1992
All 1988 - 1993 Model Year Tempo and Topaz built through September 30, 1992
All 1988 - 1993 Model Year Thunderbird/Cougar built through September 30, 1992
All 1988 - 1989 Model Year Crown Victoria and Grand Marquis
All 1988 - 1989 Model Year Lincoln Town Car
All 1988 - 1991 Model Year Aerostar
All 1988 - 1991 Model Year Bronco and F-Series Light Trucks
Reasons For Recall
On some of the affected vehicles, a short circuit could develop in the ignition switch that could lead
to overheating, smoke, and possibly fire in the steering column area of the vehicle. The condition
may occur while the vehicle is in use or unattended.
To correct this potential condition, the ignition switch will be replaced with a revised design switch.
The wiring in the upper steering column area will also be inspected for the installation of any
aftermarket electrical accessories. If an improper installation is noted you are to advise the customer
of the need to have the condition corrected. These correction costs are not part of this recall. "
Source: by Ford via Chilton
□●□
Another is;
164942

164943

164946


●□●
FORD BRONCO 1991: STEERING:WHEEL AND HANDLE BAR
Make : FORDModel : BRONCOYear : 1991
Build Dates : 0000-00-00 - 0000-00-00
NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number : 93V066000
Date Owner's Notified: 1993-05-25Date Received by ODI: 1993-04-27Date Added to Database: 1993-04-30
Manufacturers Involved: Ford Motor Company
Manufacturer's Responsible for the Recall:
Manufacturer Campaign Number:
Component: STEERING:WHEEL AND HANDLE BAR
Potential Number Of Units Affected : 2419
Summary:
KEYS ATTACHED TO THE KEY RING OF AN IGNITION KEY WHILE IT IS IN THE VEHICLE IGNITION CAN BECOME LODGED IN THE STEERING LOCK RECEIVER AS THE STEERING WHEEL IS BEING TURNED.
Consequence:
THE LODGED KEYS CAN CAUSE LOSS OF STEERING CONTROL, WHICHCAN RESULT IN AN ACCIDENT WHEN THE VEHICLE IS BEING USED ON THE HIGHWAY.
Remedy:
A SHIELD WILL BE POSITIONED BETWEEN THE STEERING WHEEL AND THE IGNITION SWITCH AND HELD IN PLACE BY THE STEERING LOCK BAND.
Report Initiator: ODIV Report
Regulation Part Number:Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard Number:
Notes:
SYSTEM: STEERING.VEHICLE DESCRIPTION: FORD TRUCKS ADAPTED FOR USE ON RAILROAD TRACKS AND AS OVERTHE ROAD VEHICLES.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
Once again, thank you so much to everyone for your help. I have learned so much in this process, which I'm sure I'll use as I fix this car over the coming decades. I couldn't have gotten this far without your advice. Today I replaced the Neutral Safety Switch, but am still unable to start with key. (I followed all the advice in past posts about adjusting it.) For the last two weeks, I have been unable to shift into any gear other than Park and Reverse. So I followed this post and this Youtube video, tore down the steering column, and found I had broken the ignition actuator when I dropped the steering wheel to install a replacement Ignition Switch. (For anyone in the future reading this thread, my 1991 is not exactly like the FSB post, so I toggled back and forth between it and the video below. Combined, I figured out how to take it apart, AND put it together!)


Replaced and the Bronco shifts and drives again. But still doesn't start with key.
165162


CURRENT SITUATION: Back to the Haynes Manual, I followed their recommendation (5-6) TFI /Ignition Problems Check, and placed my test light on Coil TACH Terminal and cranked the engine. I have "Symptom 2: Light comes on brightly but doesn't flash. The problem is the primary circuit (open from TACH to module) or ignition control module (stuck open transistor). Check primary circuit harness continuity from TACH to the ignition module." Then, after a few more tests it says: " Replace ignition module and perform the general ignition checks."

So I am happy to replace the ignition control module if folks think that's a good next step. But would just go from working one day and just be bad the next? I still suspect wire shorts from the rats 1+ years ago. I continued to be puzzled by the fact that I can jump the car by bypassing the NSS (pink wire to red/lt blue on E40D) from the starter solenoid. Makes me think there is no signal coming from turning the key. I used my new Back Probe Kit to test the power coming off the Ignition Switch and I have power at Red/Green and the Yellow wires in "Start Position." Does this sound correct? From this diagram, I thought Red/Lt Blue was supposed to take the start signal from Ignition to NSS etc. Please help. Please help...
165163
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top