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Discussion Starter #1
The most powerful movie ever IMHO.

I just saw Bowling for Columbine.
It is a movie by Michael Moore.
All I have to say is it was very powerful and the message was very awakening.
He presents the data and confronts the issues personally.
*EDIT*

All in all, it makes us really check what our farkin government is spoon feeding us, and how we the people are idiots for eating it up. Only in America can we send thousands of bombs to destroy other worlds, and as soon as something happens on our own soil we blame Marylin Manson. Sick.

I also have a lot more respect for Canada.
70% of the homes in Canada have guns, but they had very few deaths due to gun related homocides. IIRC it was under 100 in the last three years.
America alone was almost at 12,000 gun related homocides just in 2002. (More than in any of the terrorists countries).
WHO ARE THE TERRORISTS?

So the question asked by Michael Moore to everyone he interviwed was "Why in America", Why is this happening"?
No one could answer.......

Well all, I am sorry for my rant, and I think I just let a movie hit me to hard, but sometimes you dont really see what is going on until it hits you in the face.

Take it for what its worth, an opinion.

Even if your views differ than mine, please take the opportunity to watch this movie and form your own opinion.
We as Americans, Canadians, and others from around the world (Oscar) should all have at least 2 cents worth they can contribute.

Take care all, and have a good night.
Jeremie

(I edited a lot that I originally said, so if my message feels like it is missing something, my apologizes)
 

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I've been wanting to see that. In my opinion guns have little to do with it. It's a lack of respect (for life, limb, or property) and it just gets worse as time goes on...:shrug
 

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I'm not going to start a flaming war over this because Michael Moore generates passionate feelings on both sides of the fence. You either really like him or really hate him. I am one who really hates him. But for what it's worth, I did hear that some of the people in that movie have come out and said that Michael Moore coaxed their testimonies and opinions. Which, since it was suppose to be a documentary, really defeats the purpose of the movie. Now that could all be gerenerate by those who hate him, but IMHO there is always a little fact behind every lie or exaggeration.

I am with Blaze, our society is the problem, we have generated a materialistic world that causes everyone to become greedy. From armed robbery to Bush's tax cuts it all comes down to money. Guns have never been the problem. Look at those countries that have banned guns, most have seen a rise in crime, not a decline. And like he said, Canada exists with guns and a great society.

The reality behind America is we are the superpower, we are the parent figure, we step in and do what we think is best, and in some occasions, can benefit us. Does the rest of the world hate us, sure. But what kid didn't hate their parents at one time or another. But when a foreign country needs aide, who steps in, when they need relief, who loans them money, but never expects it back. How many countries have we helped over the years that haven't even paid the interest on the money we have loaned them. When we have flooding, eathquakes, tornando, have you heard of any foreign powers sending help?

What I don't like is hypocritical people who voice their opinions. Those that enjoy the American lifestyle but criticize it as well. There are many other countries out there that may fit your ideal situation that you can move to. Madonna is a perfect example, or Johnny Depp, both have criticized America (Modonna on our materialism, and Johnny Depp on our foreign policies) but both are living rich off of that same American ideal. That's like the people who tell me that are against hunting but they eat meat. "I don't like the way you kill the inocent animals." How do you think hamburger is made, or chicken from KFC. Those animals live horrible lives so you can eat them. But I have accepts that reality. I have accepted that the government dictates us on some levels. Look at North Korea, they run all the news medias, ALL, you think our government dictates what we know, those people really think we are days from attacking them and a nucular defense is their only option. Because they don't know what's going on in the rest of the world. And to some extent, we don't know what's going on with the rest of the world, but we have the option of finding out what they think, or voicing our opinions, or making documentaries that criticize America but make American money off of it. But for God sakes, it's not the hell everyone makes it out to me. America is one of the best places to live. Everyone all over the world moves here to have freedoms. But those freedoms come at some expense. That's the reality. We have tried our best to develop a democracy that hears the voices of the people. But it's the voices of the majority. From local government officials to the President, we have elections and those who have the numbers get the votes. If there is a better way for this to happen please let me know. But this is the means we have chosen to pick the people who make the decisions for us. Wether it's Republicans or Democrats (both of which have things I agree with and disagree with) both sides have lied, cheated, covered-up, etc. That's where they get their sterotype. Again, I have accepted it.

This is by no means a flame, just some pint up anger over various things i see and/or hear on a daily basis. I am not trying to supress anyone's thought or opinions, just sharing mine.
I am more then willing to discuss this further with anyone, I like debates and discussions, but I will not respond to people who feel the need to flame because they can't make valid arguements.

thanks for listening. :toothless

MM
 

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"Okay, who wants a moustache ride?"
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Very well said Smooth, amnd thank you too Blaze.
I wonder why no one else has said anything?
Maybe they havent read this post yet.

But again I am no anti-american, and I wont go on teh newsstand to speak my mind.
I just like to keep it at a minimum because opinions sometimes get in teh way of friendships, and of course I dont want to burn any friendships over politics, religion, or economy.

I really have no idea who Moore is except for what i saw in that movie.
I do not think that he confused anybody or forced an answer out of anybody, even when these people spoke and walked away he kept tapeing. That was just my view, who knows the real truth though :shrug

My reply to the parents of the world.

My honest opinion is that we should take care of our own before we go helping out other coutries.
We helped Afganistan, & Iraq and look where it got us.
Believe it or not but there is some data to proove that the guns and bombs that these terrorists use on us was made on our home soil.

We really need to leave other countries alone and let war happen on those grounds as they have happened for hundreds of years.

If they happen to perpetrate americans, or america, or if another country that is an obvious peaceful partner requests our assistance that should be the time that we retaliate. Not just because one little pissant country wants to take oover another piss ant country. One guy just wants a bigger sand box than the other, who farcking cares.

I also feel that we need to better educate kids, and adults on gun ownership. A 2 week hunter safety course in my opinion is NOT sufficient.
Education may help. Make the government pay for it, since they never convict most of the law breaking gun handlers in the first place.

It is nice to live in a society where I can express my own opinion and still have a life, but I am honestly looking at how nice Canada is. No one is trying to bomb them, and no matter what financial background you have, or what color your skin is, chances are you wont get shot or mugged.

Also wouldnt it be nice if the people on this great forum that are suffering from medical disabilites or ailments have them covered at no cost because the government has medical plans that cover everyone who are citizens in their country.
Canada does.
It would be real nice to never have to pay $10,000 for a medical procedure that is going to save my life.

Only in amercia would they go to war and spend billions of dollars if an american was killed, but they wont spend just a few thousand to save an innocent american childs life.....

Well that is all I have to say.
Remember its an opinion.
 

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Myself, I think that movie was a liberal piece of crap. no offense.

Anybody can make anything look bad by by showing an emotional story and only telling the facts they want.
 

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where can i see this movie? i have heard a lot about it and want to see it

wes
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I saw it on pay per view. But I am sure you can probably rent it.
 
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Beerman,

I saw this movie. I liked it. It made sense to me.


thankfully a friend helped me snap out of out and pull my head from my ass.

Micheal Moore paints a picture using the dumbest most whacked out people he can find. And, smirks during the whole interview knowing he is enabling them to trash themselves. So him and his fagggo hollywood ass buddies can sit back and giggle at the crazy white people he found out in middle America.

The guy holding the camera is a whacko, Micheal moore is an egotistical traveling one man freakshow. The people he interviews show no regard for human development. He did not interview REAL people, just whacked out pill poppin country ****ing bumpkins.

My advice. Think About IT Again. Look at the wing-nuts he interviewed. Look how well he paints the picture.
The guy is convincing, he would make a great used car salesman.

Regarding the point of the movie.

Bucktooth pig ****ers, such as Micheal Moore are the reason behind Columbine. Not Guns, not movies with guns, not War, not playstation, etc.
Parenting has become a hobby amongst the bucktooth pig ****ers. Not a priority. They would rather have martini's and bitch about President Bush than raise their kids. While that hypocrit Micheal moore sucks down his jizz flavored mocha, who is watching his kids? Or his cousins or nephews?

Your not going to get rid of guns. And most likely WAR is not going away any time soon. Take away counter-strike and people will freak out. Times have changed since his portrayal of America filmed through a warped lense.

And soon enough the defunct, reject, little bitches that his generation spawned will be outdated and removed from the spotlight. Did you know on that movie he super-imposed a quote on a Bush presidency ad? To make it look like it really was on the commercial? And then altered it when the movie went to DVD?


LIES, lies, fiction and more horseshit. This guy is a classic snake oil salesman. Micheal Moore can shove that movie right up his gaping, loose ass.

And, to top it off. I would love nothing more than to make a documentary on the liberal commie faggos that float around hollywood on thier egos. How bout a little taste of micheal moore behind the scenes? Depicting him and his clan of liberal bitches living in La La land? Scenes of him covering his fleshy body with peanut butter so his little poodle can lick it off.
How bout what Micheal moore spends on enima's in a month?
Then, in a final goodbye. The movie could end with him dying at the hands of a burglar because he didnt have a gun to protect himself.

Now, that shit I would watch more than once. His portrayal of America is slanted, warped and ****ed.
**** him and the midget he rode in on.

ok, i am done now.
 

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The Most Powerful LIES

LOL if you like watching a movie full of lies enjoy. it is proven that Michael moore edited the whole movie to prove his Liberal Lies. I never saw the movie because its so full of lies, but i heard in one seen you can get a gun in one day from a bank or something, well all i new its absolutely false becuse now you go through intense background checks, etc... His whole goal was to smear the NRA, and Conservatives, hes your typical Liberal, Smearful, run on emotions, no facts, etc....
 

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Very well said Taco..A little overboard but still well said.

Personally, I would no sooner pay to see a movie made by the POS, anti-american Moore, than I would to see a movie made by that pedophile, Roman Polanski. The fact that this man is still accepted by Hollywood, just goes to show how warped and depraved most of them are. Michael Moore is nothing but another in a long line of freaks that we will just have to contend with.
 

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Beerman said:
Very well said Smooth, amnd thank you too Blaze.
I wonder why no one else has said anything?
Maybe they havent read this post yet.

But again I am no anti-american, and I wont go on teh newsstand to speak my mind.
I just like to keep it at a minimum because opinions sometimes get in teh way of friendships, and of course I dont want to burn any friendships over politics, religion, or economy.
I definately agree. I was worried to voice my opinion in fear of upsetting people, but this is something I feel strongly about, and those that which to be friends with me I'm hoping would be able to look past it if they disagree.

I agree with taking care of our own. Our homeless and hungry problem is very bad here. But unfortunately it is worst elsewhere, and our homeless have systems available to help them, other countries do not.

I know about our guns being used over there, it is not publcized very much but what alot of people don't realize is we put the Taliban into power. When Russia was invading Afganistan (this was during the cold war so we didn't like Russia anyways) we found these religious radicals who could live days in the desert on just water, and were willing to fight and die to keep them out. So we supplied them with guns, anti-aircraft missles, and many other things to oust Russia. Down the road they became to big for the britches and thought they could hide Osama Bin Laden from us. I predict somewhere in the future we will have similar problems with who ever we put into power in Iraq. It's the nature of the beast. Not everyone believes we should have gone into Iraq. Did our government exagerate the situation with the WMD? Most likely, like I said, some truth to everything. Is it wrong that we went over there, I don't think so. Aside from the millions of people who won't have to live in fear of Saddam's death squad, I do believe Saddam has/had WMD. Everyone has come out and said he has had them before. We have found stuff he said he didn't have. We have found stuff that can make and carry chemical and biological weapons. We have testimony from scientist who were told to hide and/or destroy these devices and products. But here is what I think about the whole situation. We knew about Osama Bin Laden for many years. We knew he was a ratical who hated American and had the entent and possibly the means to attack us. Al Queda attacked the Cole, and we knew about them then. They have been attacking areas all over and we have known about them. Did anyone give any serious thought that they could acutally do something serious on American soil? No, But they did. What do you think would have been the reaction if we went into Afganistan 5 years ago and destroyed most of the Al Queda? There would be public outcry. The big bad America is just flexing it's muscles and has no grounds to attack this group. Hell, remember right after 9-11, some people were defending Osama Bin Laden, saying we didn't have proof that he was behind it. Then we get a tape of him praising it, and describing his involvement in it. Well then there were to many arabic speakers to decipher the tape, so he must be innocent. If we caught or killed Osama Bin Laden then, chances are September 11 may not have happened. Sure other causes might have taken up the fight against us, but we just need to keep an eye on them. Now translate that to present day. We went into Iraq to prevent Saddam Hussain from having WMD, he would most likely never use them on us, but he sure as hell would have used them for bargaining like North Korea is doing and would most likely have given them (if not already) to radical groups to use against us and other countries we support.

Of course their some inharent problems with not helping the smaller countries. First, if they are a member of NATO or similar groups, we are obligated to help them, that's what being a member of it means. If they are not a member, and they ask America for help and we don't give it, we are looked at as a self-serving superpower with no regard to the smaller countries. Look at what was happening with the Nazi's. At first it was just some small occupying of countries on their borders. That grew into Gynoside. And when this was going on, America, at first, decided not to get involved. We took a stance of not our country, not our problem. Then came Pearl Harbour. Aside from all the foreigners that died that perhaps didn't have to if we had intevened, the attack on Pearl Harbour probably wouldn't have taken place as it did.

Okay, gun control. I agree that there should be some educations. I took a hunting course when I was younger to get me liscense. It was three nights then at test. I feel we covered all the important information that still sticks with me to this day. I could see may expanding it a week, but eventually you will run out of stuff to teach. The problem is guns are had very easily. So any dumbass with some coin can pick one up. Do I want to stop gun shows? Absolutely not! It's unfortunate that people can get them easily, but the solution isn't to stop gun shows. Unfortunately I don't know of a better answer, I just know I don't agree with it. See the problem with gun control, like many other debatable topics that have two strong opinionated sides is. If one side gives a little, it could start a titlewave. If we banned gunshows and required back ground checks on shotguns and rifles. Then certain types of guns would be banned. Then government approval to own weapons would be required. Then eventually all guns would be banned. And I know this will be the case because it has happened in other countries. The anti-guns will take a case like columbine and stretch it to make all gun manufacturers responsible for all killings that use guns. So, the pro-gun side argues to keep what they have now, even if new liscensing, or educations course requirements, or bakground checks wouldn't be that big a hassle and probably help, if they allowed that, it would just tumble down hill from there.

I also feel that we need to better educate kids, and adults on gun ownership. A 2 week hunter safety course in my opinion is NOT sufficient.
The government does pay for it currently (atleast the one I attended) but like I said, there is only so much you can learn about gun safety.

Okay, Canda, I like Canada, they have a lot of great aspects about them. And however they have been able to maintain such a civil society, I don't know (probably the cold). Now, don't quote me on this, cause I'm not speaking from fact, but I thought Canadian's were taxed some exuberant amount. If that is true, that is what is most likely paying for their free healthcare system. Remember, there is nothing for free. I would love free healthcare, insurance companies SUCK! But if you are paying for it with taxes, then not only are you paying for yours, but you are paying for everyone else. Now for a society that is great, everyone is healthy. But what about people who don't use birth control and get many abortions (I won't be going into abortions, way to many people feel very passionate about it, and it will serve no purpose to discuss it here) or someone who constantly puts their health on the line, you are paying for it. Where now, you pay insurance each month, you may use, you may not. Any additional cost you pay as you needed it. If you dont' have the means, that sucks, if you do, it's great. But I guarentee there would be other 'adjustments' made if we went to socialized healthcare. Again, not speaking from fact, but I think I heard one time that there are requirements and limits on the healthcare and what they provide. Please, any Canadian's speak up and correct me and set me straight so I know what I am talking about.

Only in amercia would they go to war and spend billions of dollars if an american was killed, but they wont spend just a few thousand to save an innocent american childs life.....
This is disconcerning, we spend money on American children, we also spend money on foreign children. We also spend money on wars. The figures they discuss about rebuilding Iraq, the billions of dollars Bush proposed, you have to remember, we have a deficit that we will NEVER get out of. Some of the deficit is from money loaned to foreign countries, again, we won't see it ever. But, the billion of dollars isn't being pulled from some savings acount that could have gone to children, or education, or anything else. All they are doing is adding debt to debt. It's a matter of how much debt we are willing to deal with. If we spent money to invade Afganistan before 9-11, and were able to prevent it from happening, think of all the people we could have saved. can you put a price tag on each of their lives to determine if it was a "financially beneficial" move? Who knows how many lives, both here or abroad, we saved by going into Iraq. No one will ever know. But I would rather know that a possible threat is gone then to know we are being PC and giving those fawkers the chance to attack us.

No flaming, just discussing.:thumbup
 

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Bucktooth pig ****ers, such as Micheal Moore are the reason behind Columbine. Not Guns, not movies with guns, not War, not playstation, etc.
I agree with this, though in a more civilized manor. Parents are the biggest let down to our society. TV and Nintendo's has substituded family involvement. What do the parents always say when their kids kill, or are arrested for drugs. "I had no idea, he's such a good boy/girl, he could never do something like that." Get involved! Know what your kid is doing. Now, I know there are parents on this board, and I don't mean to tell you what to do, as it stands, I'm not a father (best to my knowledge) so I can't say it is easy. But it is possible. And for the children and the betterment of our society this needs to be a priority. Parents are going to make the difference in generations to come!
 

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IMO, Michael Moore is a political activist and his movies are his way of making an arguement for his views. He and I have divergent opinions. Anyone who watches his movies, visits his website, etc. should approach it with an open mind. However, you must also take it with a grain of salt, because it is presented with a slant not an informative reporting. That doesnt make it good or bad, just something to keep in mind. Your opinion is your own, make up your own mind.

I'm at work so I cant go into my opinions on the other topics raised. When I get home I will try to contribute to the discussion.
 

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That's a good way to look at Michael Moore, I like it!
 

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Remember, one of the first things Hitler did we he came into power was to make it illegal for citizens to own guns. This was sold to the people as the way to make society safer for everyone. What it did was disarm the people so they could not rise up against him when he unleashed his master plan.

" He who gives up his freedom for protection will soon have neither!"

Michael Moore is an idiot! He passes this movie off as a documentary when it was really just fiction. His production crew has since admitted that most of those scenes were staged. They also said it took them two weeks to arrange the sceen showing how easy it was to buy a gun.

I have friends who live in Canada and they say the biggest problem with their "free" healthcare is that most of the good doctors left and went down to the US where they can actually make some money. They also says that when their friends have a serious health issue they go see a US doctor and pay for it themselves.
 
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