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aka: kemicalburns
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i got nowhere this weekend as well. I have new striker bushings arriving this week that i will get swapped and look at a perm bypass for both the safety switch and the connector for the glass motor.

With my keyed switch not working, will this have any impacts to the rest of the wiring?
 

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'95 XLT: 5.8, MAF, E4OD, 4.56's, 6" lift on 33's
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Discussion Starter #62
@BikerPepe`
FWIW - where you jumpered that safety switch? I just removed that from my harness and used a solderless, weatherproof connector to bypass it permanently. As for the connector AT the window motor, I did away with the plug and used solderless / weatherproof slid on connectors and the window works now from the key, and the dash switch with zero issues.
Yea... I've been really reluctant to eliminate any of the OEM connections. I might be more likely to try and find some quality aftermarket, weatherproof connectors and swap them in, rather then just eliminate them altogether.
I really love the electrical wire connectors Harley uses. They come apart and go back together easily and hold tight against some seriously nasty weather conditions. Only problem is they're generally 4 or 6 wires, not just 2.
I'll have to poke around online and see what else I can find. I don't have a problem replacing them if it works... I just hesitate to completely remove them all. I do plan to own this rig for the rest of my days but when I pass it on, I don't want to give the screw to someone I loved enough to leave my FSB with.

I did use the solderless, shrink/sealed connector to patch one of the power lines that had a tear in the jacket and I've got plenty of those around still. I may just throw my hands up in the air, as many of you appear to have already and just hardwire the whole rear harness but I'm not quite there yet. Thanks though.

i got nowhere this weekend as well. I have new striker bushings arriving this week that i will get swapped and look at a perm bypass for both the safety switch and the connector for the glass motor.

With my keyed switch not working, will this have any impacts to the rest of the wiring?
I just got my new square slider replacements, weather end seals for the gate top edges and what I thought was one but turned out to be a handful of plastic "brake/fuel line frame clips" that hold the wire harness against the gate between the gate and rear quarter. Hopefully I'll be able to get out there soon and start replacing this stuff.

If your dash is working... I don't think you have concerns about the rest of the wiring but you really do want the key switch working. Personally... I'd rather have that one than the dash working, if I had to choose. Maybe that's just me though.

Hang in there... we'll both get this sh!t fingered out, eventually. ;)
 

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aka: kemicalburns
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Unfortunately I don't have the correct key for the rear gate... I do have a key though from an older bronco so i have been tempted to take that apart and over to a key master to have them match it to the key i have. i agree the keyed switch would be nice to have working.
 

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'92 Custom w/ '95 MAF 5.0, 33's, 4.10 LSD
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I had a locksmith make a key to match my tailgate lock cylinder. Going that route, at least you know there's no compatibility issues using an older lock assembly.

(When I bought the Bronco, the dash switch worked for down but not up, and the tailgate lock wasn't there...turned out a PO had left it dangling inside the tailgate and used the hole to mount something; not sure if it was a CB antenna or flag or?? There's no accounting for stupid ideas...)
 

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Discussion Starter #65 (Edited)
Got a little bit done today. I'm going to lay out the rollers repair/swap here with pics. Most of you will be familiar with the parts and it's not a complicated process but I've read a few times people saying it's tougher than it should be and using drill bits to remove the old but I'd like to show something for noobs and future noobs... so skip or enjoy. ;)


I got the new plastic, square sliders from JBG for the scissor lift in the other day, along with a few other little pieces.


Close up of one of the rollers that was worn down from not being able to spin freely at all anymore. Even when I broke it loose, the rust and corrosion that had formed over the metal nub that centers these rollers was too bad to restore without destroying the plastic roller.



I remove nearly every oem pin or rivet like an old body man showed me decades ago. Drilling them out requires dead center, no slip and they can break loose, start to spin around and generally be a wiggly pain in the ass and if you get off-centered, you can damage the mounting hole and get into a whole other mess. You can easily avoid all that by problem potential by simply grinding the back side of the pin or rivet off until it's flush to the mounting surface. Ground off the pressed back side of the rivet and just took the surface rust of the face of the mount so it's flush and clean.


Once that's done, you can easily see where the pin penetrates the mounting surface of the arm and easily pop it through with a proper sized punch. Preferable a round one... so it doesn't slip through and mar up the mounting hole.



Mounting the replacement roller is easy because you have a clean, solid mounting hole to use. This replacement is built to fit exactly in the same hole with a tiny lip on the bolt above the threads, so you can tighten it down with a lock-nut. I used a little thread lock, just to give it a tiny bit more long lasting bite. If you buggered up the mounting hole... this could be a pain in the ass.


And it's done. Quick, easy, solid and should last for many years to come (knocks on wooden leg).





Back to the wire harness. After I finished up that little repair, I plugged the harness into the plug between the fuel tank and the bumper. Laid the harness out toward the drivers side door, with the motor on the floor at my foot. Reached in, turned the key to ACC and tested the motor with the dash switch. Bi-directional action, no problem! So I turned off and removed the key, walked over to the tailgate switch and tested the motor from there. Bi-directional action, no problem! So at this point, it's acting like it should be working just fine. Only problem is... now you guys have me all paranoid about my connectors now. You bastards! (haha.. jokes. I miss goodfinge )

So, I ended up re-wrapping the harness tonight, with elec. wire cloth tape I had left over from the reman. Took nearly the whole roll but it's all back together now, nice and tight and protected from friction or unnecessary wear. Well... everything but the window defroster line. If it ain't broke...
I even slipped a small plastic bag of the safety jumped safety switch, wrapped it tight with e-tape and then re-wrapped it with the cloth tape. For the last connector to the motor itself... I'm going to spray the bejesus out of both sides/ends with starter fluid, blow it out all dry and clean, pack it with grease, (not sure if white lithium or stuff it with dielectric) for corrosion resistance and test it again before I re-route it all the way back through the tailgate and quarter panel.
 

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Next time you have to re-wrap a wiring harness, the best stuff to use is the stuff the factory used. The problem I've had with cloth electrical tape is it dries up and falls off, and the adhesive of regular plastic electrical tape, under high heat, turns to a gummy mess.
WRAP TAPE WIRE HARNESS 1 1/4 INCH NON-ADHESIVE - #913-2 - National Parts Depot
(It took me years to find this kind of tape after using both of the above types.)
 

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Discussion Starter #67
I used what was left from the same stuff you suggested to me when I was working on the engine harness. No heat back there, beyond hot wires. I did forget though that I have been considering the relay mod. I'd have to cut a section I just cleanly covered but if I get get enough length in 10 gauge, it might just be worth the effort. I know everyone who's done that properly loves it. I have had the relays for a few years. Zen-Dragon gave me some when he did his. They aren't the one-touch or anything but for me it's about the power boost and longevity.
 

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aka: kemicalburns
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so your saying that there was nothing wrong with your harness in the tailgate and it functions properly with the safety switch bypassed? Why wasnt it working when it was in the tailgate? are you certain that just because the regulator rollers were seized up that was why?
 

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Discussion Starter #69 (Edited)
The only thing I actually repaired on the harness was a single spot where the wire jacket had been scraped and the wire exposed. What was really weird about that was... it was inside the thick plastic liner I tore apart, between the quarter panel and the gate. I can't even imagine how that spot got damaged without it being obvious on the large, plastic sleeve. Not to mention, if it was only that little piece of wire... it shouldn't have effected both UP and DOWN but one or the other, if I understand the harness properly.
I snipped that spot and checked the wire. It was hard from exposure but no signs of corrosion had begun. I reconnected it with a marine butt-connector and tested it on the floor. It worked, so I re-wrapped the harness.






After re-wrapping... I plugged it back in and tested it again... it still worked. And THAT... is why I hate electrical problems! For all I know... it's fixed or I could get it all back in the tailgate and it could start acting up again. Maybe it was the latch, safety switch and the bypass with the jump wire was the real fix but my "testing" didn't. Those two issues were addressed and now it seems to be working but again... I'm far from confident.

I still plan to clean the connectors, blow them out and then seal the open back ends with the liquid electric tape to try and keep any future corrosion from compromising the connectors, since so many have said they were an issue. I think I should be able to clean and seal these connectors well enough, if the cold weather doesn't muck up the curing of the liquid electric tape, stuff. Never used the stuff before, so I'll have to cross my fingers and hope for the best.


Today I spent the afternoon running around to every auto parts and hardware store within a 30 minute drive. Spent $50 on 30 ft of 10 gauge wire to run the relays mod. Also picked up a can of liquid electric tape (I've never used but a buddy at NAPA swears by) and I found 1 piece of chemical/glue sealing shrink wrap that will cover and seal the 10 ga. wire. That should work well where the 10 ga power line has to split to feed the two UP/DOWN relays and the key switch. The rest of the connections should seal fine with the marine grade butt-connectors.

In for a penny, in for a pound right? If nothing else, freshening up the power source back there can only help.



Just reposting for future referance...
 

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aka: kemicalburns
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well good luck with the Relay setup. I should really consider doing this as well. good pictures if you can would be awesome
 

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Discussion Starter #71
I will do the best I can. My biggest problem with my pics now is my vision is blurry enough that I'm often wrong when I thought the camera was in focus. It's not just a need for Rx glasses, it's a side effect of one of my medications. Still... I know seeing the actual wires patched in and the relays placed would help a few of us more than just looking at a simple diagram.
 

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Still... I know seeing the actual wires patched in and the relays placed would help a few of us more than just looking at a simple diagram.
I know it would really help me 'cause I sure can't see how the above diagram would work (but I'm not the best at reading them anyhow) :unsure:

The diagram doesn't show one, but I'm sure you're planning for a fuse in the new 10 ga power supply, right? :oops:
 

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Discussion Starter #73 (Edited)
No... actually, I did not add an inline fuse but I probably should. If I need too, I'll have to do it up by the battery now, which is probably preferable anyway.


So... I spent the day on this project. Running the 10ga. wire from the battery, across the engine bay and down the frame rail with the harness was easy enough to do but kicked my gimpy ass. The relay wiring is complicated, yet simple. You'll see what I mean. Pics may or may not help because it turns into a mess of colored spaghetti real quick but I took lots of pics and will do the best I can to explain it, as I went through it. I feel like it was a hack-job but I did the best my ignorant ass could do and when it was all said and done... I tested the motor on the tailgate and it worked, so I must have gotten lucky. ;)

LOOK OUT! TAILGATE WINDOW RELAY MOD WRITE-UP... INCOMING!!!

First things first. 30' of 10 ga. wire, 2x 5 wire relays, 4x weatherproof butt-connectors, some liquid electrical tape and a piece of heavy duty weather sealing shrink tube (long enough to make a few connection seals with), the wire diagram printout and my little cheat sheet... and I was ready to make it happen.
(I didn't mention that I have tools for soldering and wire repair stuff... so yea, you'll need some of that stuff too.)


The cheat sheet was nothing more than me looking up the numbers on the relay itself and writing down the corresponding wire colors with the numbers for quick reference. I assume these relays can come with different wire colors, so I would think that's why the diagram doesn't specify wire colors for the relay(s) and instead, references the numbers on the relay. May seem stupid to some but it saved me from getting confused as I walked through the process, without having to do it my head every time while holding on to other thoughts. I smoke weed... probably a lot of weed, so at least I have an excuse for my lame brain.


Before I could start on the relays, I had to run the new power supply line. This took me a good bit of time and effort but I did it as cleanly as I could, followed the OEM harness and used about 25 zip-ties to keep it up clear and tight. As mentioned before, if I really need an inline fuse... I can add one later by the battery. I didn't take any pics of this because it's pretty straight forward and each owner and rig are different... so do whatever you need to keep it tight, secure and routed so it won't be worn down against sharp metal edges or the like. Probably a great reason to use an inline fuse (wink, wink, nudge, nudge for @SRWillis ), just incase.
I used bailing wire to help me get the new line through some of the tougher spots. Love my bailin' wire. Just wrap it tight around the wire, tape them together and route it through. The bailing wire bends and stays enough for tough spots but bends easily where you want it too... like along the fuel tank but still inside the frame, etc.




Here are the relays I used. I don't know much about 'em. My local buddy (@Zen-Dragon ) gave them to me after he did this upgrade to his bullnose. I checked them against the wire diagram and all the numbers matched. Figured that was good enough for me. I'm sure they're listed somewhere around here. I think @jowens1126 had listed them somewhere but I'll be damned if I can find it now.


These relays were built to be mounted side by side and even secured to each other, so I marked 'em UP/DN and mounted them as high up inside the taillight hole as I could and still get the extended phillips head in there. I used 2 self-tapping screws, 1 for each relay and made sure they were mounted tight. I try to never remove self-tapping metal screws once I run 'em in tight. They never seem to secure as well the second, third, forth, etc. time as the first.


Once I had 'em mounted, I figured it best to secure my grounds first. I double checked the wire diagram and compared it to my cheat sheet. 2 ground wires from each relay... RED (87a) and WHITE (86) relay wires. Not my preference... but whatever. I bundled all 4 together and stuffed 'em in a ring connector. Ran a little of the heavy duty shrink wrap over the connector and the 4 wires and put my new ground where the original ground for the window defrost goes.


At this point, I put the tailgate wire harness back into place through the tailgate and ran it the proper length to make sure I would reach into the right area and let it hang. If you haven't messed with the harness, this would be where you unplug it between the back of the fuel tank and the bumper and pull it up through the quarter panel. If you were working on a 2nd gen... sucks to be you (j/k). Can still be done, you just don't have the plug to pull the harness out like I did... if I read Steve83's stuff right. You probably also don't have a window defrost, so that will let you use a lot more space... but that should become evident as you read on.

Anyway... here you can see that I stuffed the remaining relay wires up, out of the way. I taped around the harness on either side of my access cut, so it couldn't un-ravel, now or in the future. I cut the cover off to expose about 4-5 inches of the harness wires, where I'll tap into the existing lines for the relays and new power supply. You can see the ground wire for the defrost there (ring connector). I exposed the rest just a few inches up the line from where it comes out of the harness.


So here is where we start getting serious. The power supply wire in the original harness is the BLACK/WHITE (BK/W) wire. I cut this one to expose as much wire as possible going to the tailgate. I did that because it will tie into the new 10 ga. power line with 2 other relay wires and will be soldered and sealed with the heavy duty, weatherproof shrink wrap. That's actually the only piece of this puzzle I really felt the need to solder. More on that later. I took some of my liquid electric tape and coated the exposed, un-used end of the power wire. No reason to leave a live power line exposed... either for shorting something out or corrosion potential.


Next... I cut the PURPLE/LIGHT GREEN (P/LG) wire in the CENTER for WINDOW UP and patched it into the UP relay. Not a big deal to keep track but I already marked my relays and thought that might come in handy, if I ever have problems or choose to upgrade my relays. According to the Diagram and my Cheat Sheet... the BLACK (85) relay wire connected to the source wire (up-stream, dash switch) and the BLUE (30) relay wire connected to the feed wire (down-stream, key switch). 2 weatherproof butt connectors and that's one control wire, done.


Then I cut the PURPLE/LIGHT BLUE (PK/LB) wire in the CENTER for WINDOW DOWN and patched it into the DN relay, in the exact same way (BLACK-85 up-stream, BLUE-30 down-stream). Not significant to the job but I used pink connectors for the UP and blue ones for the DOWN, just to try and keep things separate and obvious.


Finally... the new POWER supply line... the 10 ga. wire. First, I taped the 2 YELLOW (87) relay power supply wires, inline with the old BLACK/WHITE (BK/W) power supply wire, just to hold them all together nice and tight. I ran them headlong into my 10 ga. power supply line, wrapped 'em around each other and used my beloved solder grip roach-clip to hold 'em steady, while I slowly worked on soldering it all together. It took a long time to heat up enough to finally suck up the solder... but once it did, you can barely see any of the solder because the wire bundle sucks it all inside, among the wire bundle. That's when you know, beyond a doubt that your solder job is going to hold, strong.





Gave it a good yank test. Seemed nice and solid so I snapped a pic, then slipped the heavy duty, weatherproof shrink wrap over the 1-into-3 bundle and sealed it up carefully with a tiny blow-torch I stole from a crack-head years ago. Everybody should have one... the mini blow torch, not a crack-head. ;)



After that... I taped the whole bundle back together, nice and tight with no crimps. I screwed in BOTH of my ground wires... the new bundle and the original one for the defrost. Side note... the defrost power line is the ONLY line in the harness that stayed, un-cut. If it ain't broke, don't mess with it. If you don't have one... this job would have given you a lot more room to play with because you'd end up cutting and patching every wire in the tailgate harness.


Continued in the next post... because the new board SUCKS and won't let me make a post with more than 20 images, even though they're remotely hosted images. Vertical Scope/Auto Guide... your "new" forum setup is BAD and you should feel BAD!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #74
As promised... PART 2



Coming into the finish line here... I routed the whole tailgate harness back through the quarter panel access hole, routed the harness back over the frame by the body mount and over to the plug-in... and plugged it back in.


I went up front and connected the new power supply line to the battery. Walked back to my spaghetti wire mess and nothing was smoking or hot. So far so good. I plugged the motor into the harness and laid it out on the gate. I reached in the gate and tested the key switch by hand for up and down... and WOW! Not only did the motor work in both directions, it appeared to move the gear almost twice as fast as I'd ever seen it move before! SUCCESS!!!

The taillight fit right back in place with no problem and the RELAY UPGRADE was COMPLETE!


Damn... it took almost 1/2 as long to write this up as it did to do the job. I really hope this helps somebody out. I know it's hard to follow and I'm sorry for that but like I said... it's a simple and complicated job. From what I've heard over the years and seen so far, I think it will be worth the time and effort.



I still need to weld repair the metal bridge at the top ends of the gate, where the tailgate skin joins the tailgate framework. That area is apparently very susceptible to serious metal rust/rot. Once I get that area repaired, I'll be able to re-assemble the rest of the gate internals and wrap this job up.
Far from done but solid progress and a great modification completed. This tailgate window should work better than any I've ever had and even though I felt like a hack putting everything together so far... I tried to wrap it all up, nice and weather tight, so it should hopefully last for a few more decades.

To be continued... ;)
 

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aka: kemicalburns
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Nicely done... I feel I can follow this for sure and get my tailgate back to normal operation..

Thanks for all your time and patience, stopping to take pictures and like you said write this all up is no easy task.
 

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Fine lookin' job, thanks for takin' the time to document it and share it with us. (y)

No... actually, I did not add an inline fuse but I probably should. If I need too, I'll have to do it up by the battery now, which is probably preferable anyway.
I think that would be the place to put it. I have a spare one I can donate to the project, and I'm planning on going to the JY again Monday, so I can pick up a couple fuses also. Do you think a 20A fuse would do, or would you like a 30A?

The cheat sheet was nothing more than me looking up the numbers on the relay itself and writing down the corresponding wire colors with the numbers for quick reference. May seem stupid to some...
I have to do the same thing, or I'd have 'em all crossed up for sure. o_O
 

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Discussion Starter #78
Actually bud... I think a 30a is probably the better choice. The relays are marked for 30-40 amp but I don't know off-hand what the motor requires or what it pushes under load. Anybody got a solid recommendation on that? I also assume I'll have to use one setup for 10 ga. wire.


Well... more progress this afternoon. I love having that Hobart 210 around now. I haven't welded for decades but I think I did alright with it. I was also real happy to see the range the welder has, after buying it for heavy duty plow repairs but occasionally wanting to do body work on thin gauge metal. Now I know it's capable of both. I had to go down to the lowest settings though. Not only was the piece thin, stacked metal but the corrosion was excessive and I was blowing through the rust for the first few tries.

Here's the area in question and the rubber plug piece that goes there to "seal" the edges of the tailgate. I use the term "seal" loosely because it appears to me like the old ones were just holding the moisture in place to rot the metal.

p-side: This one is pretty bad...


d-side: This one is nearly gone...


Both of the rubber pieces were obviously rotted out too, so I ordered aftermarket replacement from JBG.
Time to clean and prep for the coming weld job...

p-side:


d-side:


ZAP, ZAP, ZAPPAROOooooo. Yea, not real pretty but that wasn't the point. Penetration and build up. Lots of small zaps to build on and replace rotted out metal. I thought about finding some metal to patch it but quickly realized those rubber pucks wouldn't fit right, so I had to build up and grind down.

p-side:


d-side:


I used my air powered disk cutter to grind down all the excesses and smooth out the surface so the rubber pucks will not just be force fit, causing vibration to cut into them over time and bring the problem right back.

p-side:


d-side:


I cleaned up the jagged edges a bit where I could with a file and I gave 'em a quick spray with some old shop black spray paint, just to protect 'em a little bit from corrosion. I really need to toss out my 8 yr. old paints and get some fresh, un-frozen/thawed multiple times paint for these quick corrosion coatings.

p-side:


d-side:


I'll let 'em cure through the night but I think these will last a good while longer now. Tomorrow I'll start to re-assemble the tailgate and if all goes well... I'll have my Bronco back on the road and my shop free'd up so I can get back to re-assembling Dad's 400.
 

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At least you were able to get your tailgate open. Last time I tried my tailgate. . Oh about 4 years ago when I parked it, the window would move BUT the handle wouldn't release the latches to open the tailgate. Pretty sure I will have to cut the tailgate open like a sardine can some day.

PS. . You all miss me?
 

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Discussion Starter #80
Did you read the first page Goose? I got it down... but it was far from easy or uncomplicated.
Regardless... welcome home man. Hope all is well.


Spent the better part of the day out in the shop, re-assembling the gate. Had to come back inside a few times to verify fit, routing, re-assembly stuff but it's all back together now. It still works... so that was a good sign.

I have to admit, I wasn't that impressed with the relay upgrade when it was all said and done. It's a little faster but not a whole lot. I guess I'll just hope it lasts much, much longer. Maybe it's all the fresh rubbers or something. Oh well. It's done now but I'm not sure I'd bother with it, if I had to do it all over again.
 
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