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penis
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3,320 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
O.K. I have a DTC orf 628 the fluid is clean Little dirty but clean trans shifts great. I know 628 is the torque converter slipping. Now I am sure it is more then likely shot or going out. Now my question is should I just replace the torque converter or the tranny? Will it be fine with just the converter and seal for the converter.
 

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Satyr of the Midwest
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17,736 Posts
If the transmission is working fine otherwise, just replace the torque converter, front pump seal, and the stator seal. Don't forget that last item, or you'll be doing it all over again shortly. This is all assuming that the problem is purely mechanical.
 

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penis
Joined
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3,320 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Well i have no idea that is the only code i have (i also have a 328 for the AIR pump but that is a miss direction) and everyone i talked to said it was the torque converter failing. I SOOOOOOOOOOOO need to get a tranny temp gauge. Now could it be a faulty sensor? Some one told me (a guy from work) said I should either have muilple codes or tranny issues if the converter was failing. Electrical things are not my favorite things to deal with. I mean if i had hard shifting or something then yea I could deal with that and figure oput where to go from there. Now for the last and most important question of the day should I go with an aftermarket (B&M) torque converter or should I stay stock (will I notice perfamance gains or will it work better/last longer)?
 

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Satyr of the Midwest
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17,736 Posts
Guy from work is wrong. The ONLY code you'll get for a TCC not locking is the 628, unless it was an open or shorted TCC solenoid, which would generate a different DTC. My Bronco gave me that code too, right when I first bought it, and it was the only code in continuous memory. Nothing like dropping a transmission in the driveway with three feet of snow.

There is no turbine speed sensor on an E4OD; torque converter lock-up is verified though the ratio of engine speed and vehicle speed. So unless your speedometer doesn't work and/or your engine doesn't run :)toothless) the required detection mechanisms are working fine. It's all done in programming.

Stay away from aftermarket torque converters unless you absolutely NEED one, e.g. you have much higher-flowing heads, higher-duration camshaft, different differential gearing, etc. If anything, they won't last nearly as long as a quality OE rebuilt unit, as the racing junk doesn't have any warranty (or at least no warranty of consequence, as most are too short to make them worth anything). The OE converter is rated at 2000 rpm flash stall, so it's pretty decent already. I'm still using one with a Mustang camshaft and GT40P heads.
 

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penis
Joined
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3,320 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
O.K. now let me ask you this you mentioned speedo failure. Well a while ago my PSOM failed replaced with another gauge cluster went from automatic (original) to a standard tranny (current one). Could that cause it (heard the cluster doesn't make a difference) Because if it is that well WTF I can replace it with a correct one. I do know that this thing sat for the better part of 2 years due to a bad brake line (fixed that) so I am expecting problems to come up.

Would a counter one from like advanced auto or orielly's work?

And if I would have known I would have lent a hand in doing it I am screwed cause I live in an apartment now so it has to goto a shop and have it done.
 

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Satyr of the Midwest
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17,736 Posts
So the PSOM you currently use is from a truck with a manual transmission? That shouldn't be a problem, but I hope I'm interpreting your post correctly.

I'd prefer a Motorcraft replacement, but as long as it's a high-quality OE remanufactured part, you should be fine.
 

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penis
Joined
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3,320 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
So the PSOM you currently use is from a truck with a manual transmission? That shouldn't be a problem, but I hope I'm interpreting your post correctly.

I'd prefer a Motorcraft replacement, but as long as it's a high-quality OE remanufactured part, you should be fine.
It is a boneyard part ford qouted me like 400 bux for a replacement one not including install. I know I lost the gear shift and the tach with the new one and the temp gauge is a little off sits just above the C-mark when it is sitting and not running will climb to the M on the word normal and settle around there a climbs a little sitting in traffic but everything else works. Ford also said they wouldn't warranty the new one as it was an electrical device the bone yard one I have 2 weeks left on the warranty and only cost me $35 so unless it is something that ford did different in the 93-96 gauges I am at a lost. Sorry if I am being confusing or unclear just got home from pulling doubles last night sitting in the same seat for 16 hours is literally a pain in the ass
 

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Super Moderator
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25,781 Posts
yo,
Thought this was a new post by someone else. anyhowz. glad that Sig jumped in here with his opinion!

Here is your other post on this 628
http://fullsizebronco.com/forum/showthread.php?t=177150

I know you need others to offer some $ savings life rings on this so asking again on the DTC is prob the way to go; with me too if I had to fork out $$$ for a new TC and install by a shop; esp some shops that seem to come up with another issue during the install. Our local mom & pop tire shop (55 yrs in same family) have gone South now because their son needs mo money to send his daughters to an Ivy league school. He charged me $45.00 to install a plug. This was during a routine free tire rotation. Adios Ed!

GL
 

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penis
Joined
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3,320 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
yo,
Thought this was a new post by someone else. anyhowz. glad that Sig jumped in here with his opinion!

Here is your other post on this 628
http://fullsizebronco.com/forum/showthread.php?t=177150

I know you need others to offer some $ savings life rings on this so asking again on the DTC is prob the way to go; with me too if I had to fork out $$$ for a new TC and install by a shop; esp some shops that seem to come up with another issue during the install. Our local mom & pop tire shop (55 yrs in same family) have gone South now because their son needs mo money to send his daughters to an Ivy league school. He charged me $45.00 to install a plug. This was during a routine free tire rotation. Adios Ed!

GL
Thanks man I have been on this forum for a long time and have gotten my share of flamage but there are a few members I trust. I like to ask a shitload of questions because like everyone else I am broke so getting info and pointed in the right direction so it is only done once and it is done right helps me out a lot. So I thank you for the help as well as SIG. I can pass my knowledge along as well to help out other members.
 

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Super Moderator
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25,781 Posts
yo; I just went back thru the poses and realize that before you got that replacement PSOM you had written;
"Trans shift smooth (was rebuilt at one point).. trans fluid is full (dirty but it is full)..."

http://fullsizebronco.com/forum/showthread.php?t=176386

So.....


PSOM diagram for '96 Bronco. '93-95 similar.
 

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Super Moderator
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25,781 Posts
yw,

I gotz to do some work on the house now;

how about getting all the info on that PSOM info together (any orher PSOM or Cruise Control if installed, etc issue)along with the aroma of the tranny fluid and how dirty it look AND FEELS... get some fluid on your fingers and see if it is gritty;

Ask Sig if those solenoids could be a cause (crudon em or in valve body) as Ian mentioned in one of the Links I gave ya in da other thread.
 

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penis
Joined
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3,320 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
It is dirty kind of a dirty pink color, It had a rebuild tag on the ear of the bell house stating it was rebuilt a couple of years ago, the othere ear had what looked the company that rebuilt it but it is missin now but to be honest it could also be a bone yard one.
As for the PSOM I did the typical thing check connections replace the VSS/ABS sensor came down to replacing the gauge cluster.
 

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penis
Joined
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3,320 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
If the transmission is working fine otherwise, just replace the torque converter, front pump seal, and the stator seal. Don't forget that last item, or you'll be doing it all over again shortly. This is all assuming that the problem is purely mechanical.
Hey SIG once again thanks I called a shop and for the torque converter and seal is gonna run me about $500 not bad IMO but where/what is the stator seal?
 

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Satyr of the Midwest
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17,736 Posts
That's quite expensive for an OE replacement torque converter, IMO. You should be able to find one for little more than half that price.

The stator shaft seal is available at any Ford dealership parts counter, as it's a very popular part. It's the same one used on 4R100 transmissions; it looks like a 2mm thick ring of plastic with a diagonal cut. It's Teflon, and keeps the pressure in the converter required to engage the clutch. If that leaks, your new converter clutch will be smoked in a few miles, and it's unbelievably easy to damage that seal during removal and installation.
 

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penis
Joined
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3,320 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
That's quite expensive for an OE replacement torque converter, IMO. You should be able to find one for little more than half that price.

The stator shaft seal is available at any Ford dealership parts counter, as it's a very popular part. It's the same one used on 4R100 transmissions; it looks like a 2mm thick ring of plastic with a diagonal cut. It's Teflon, and keeps the pressure in the converter required to engage the clutch. If that leaks, your new converter clutch will be smoked in a few miles, and it's unbelievably easy to damage that seal during removal and installation.
LMAO I goofed I meant for labor and everything is $500 I will probably get the seal and the stator seal before hand
 

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penis
Joined
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3,320 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
I guess it is update time......... Took it to the tranny shop (reputable one at that) he drove it and said it is working fine and locking up when it should, I drove it for a couple of days..... well a day and a half first day was fine was doing some around town driving shifter a lot better (smoother and no uphill shuttering at 40-45 miles per hour). They flushed the tranny. Now my question is on the second day I got on her 3/4 throttle going up a bridge went about 7 miles started acting up again, pulled the same code 628, called the tranny shop he explained he drove it converter locks up, all 4 gears shifted smooth.

My new question is that if it is failing while under load (heavy foot) would my TCC soleniod be failing at only high line pressure? He said that the fines on the converter could have a glaze on it from sitting for so long. Or should I break down and goto a cheaper tranny shop and get the converter replaced?
 

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Super Moderator
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25,781 Posts
yo,
We prob went thru the following awhile ago, but may as well look @ it again bec. of what the man said about glazing;
DTC 62, 628 & 1744 Converter Overheat, High Line Pressure; "...E4OD/4R100 transmissions often have problems with converter overheat, codes 62, 628, 1744, high line pressure and low cooler. The OEM valve can close off critical converter/cooler circuit under high-demand situations, causing the TCC to drag on and glaze the lining at idle, or restricting converter/cooler charge during high load causing converter slip codes, overheat and lube failures. flow. Sonnax now offers an upgraded line-to-lube pressure regulator valve 36424-04K with a patented internal line-to-lube passage with anti-drainback check valve, and a revised balance-end orifice. While drilling the pump casting will allow full-time flow to the cooler circuit, it is not precise and allows converter drainback, causing delayed engagements complaints. A revised balance end orifice is built into the valve and ensures sufficient oil is fed to the end of the PR valve to keep the valve in the proper regulating position and further preventing converter/ cooler flow restrictions. This is a drop in replacement that requires no machining..."
Source: by sonnaflow.com


&
MARCH 2, 1998



LIGHT TRUCK:
1989-97 F SUPER DUTY, F-250 HD, F-350
1989-98 ECONOLINE, F-150, F-250 LD
1990-96 BRONCO
1997-98 EXPEDITION
1998 NAVIGATOR

This TSB article is being republished in its entirety to correct the vehicles listed.

ISSUE:
Some vehicles may exhibit a flashing Transmission Control Indicator Lamp (TCIL) and Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs) 62, 628, and/or 1728 may be stored in memory. These DTCs can be set by any internal transmission element slippage or potentially by torque converter slippage.

ACTION:
Refer to the following text when servicing these codes.

NOTE:
WHEN SERVICING A VEHICLE WITH A FLASHING TCIL WITH DTCS 62, 628 AND/OR 1728, DO NOT REPLACE THE TORQUE CONVERTER UNLESS PROPER DIAGNOSIS HAS PROVEN THE TORQUE CONVERTER TO BE THE CAUSE.

Always verify the customer concern. Proper diagnosis for DTCs 62, 628 and/or 1728 may require talking to the customer to find out if there were any other symptoms associated with the TCIL flashing, (i.e., shift concerns, erratic/early/late, proper torque converter operation, etc.), prior to noticing the TCIL flashing.

Prior to transmission repairs for DTCs 62, 628 and/or 1728 or investigating other causes, repair all non-related transmission DTCs first, then repair all other transmission DTCs other than 62, 628 and/or 1728.

Some of the other causes that may result in DTCs 62, 628 and/or 1728 are as follows:

- Aftermarket modifications (i.e., performance enhancers, electrical modifications, etc.)

- Missing shifts (some/all)

- Transmission fluid leakage (internal and/or external)

- Erratic shift timing

- Valves, springs or retainers in the main control/accumulator body not assembled correctly, binding or sticking

- Check balls missing and/or mislocated. Damaged, unable to seal/seat properly

- Higher or lower than normal line pressure

- Transmission fluid restrictions and/or level

- Erratic/inoperative vehicle speed and/or rpm sensor

- Poor engine performance concerns

Any vehicle system concerns that could cause the strategy to detect a perceived internal slippage or change in the expected rpm of internal transmission rotating components may cause DTCs 62, 628 and/or 1728 to set.

NOTE:
ONCE DTCs 62, 628 AND/OR 1728 SET, OTHER TRANSMISSION FUNCTIONAL DTCs MAY NOT SET.

OTHER APPLICABLE ARTICLES:

-94-2-26

-96-10-14

SUPERSEDES: 98-1-23

WARRANTY STATUS: INFORMATION ONLY

OASIS CODES: 501000, 502000, 504000, 510000, 614000, 698298
 

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penis
Joined
·
3,320 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
yo,
We prob went thru the following awhile ago, but may as well look @ it again bec. of what the man said about glazing;
DTC 62, 628 & 1744 Converter Overheat, High Line Pressure; "...E4OD/4R100 transmissions often have problems with converter overheat, codes 62, 628, 1744, high line pressure and low cooler. The OEM valve can close off critical converter/cooler circuit under high-demand situations, causing the TCC to drag on and glaze the lining at idle, or restricting converter/cooler charge during high load causing converter slip codes, overheat and lube failures. flow. Sonnax now offers an upgraded line-to-lube pressure regulator valve 36424-04K with a patented internal line-to-lube passage with anti-drainback check valve, and a revised balance-end orifice. While drilling the pump casting will allow full-time flow to the cooler circuit, it is not precise and allows converter drainback, causing delayed engagements complaints. A revised balance end orifice is built into the valve and ensures sufficient oil is fed to the end of the PR valve to keep the valve in the proper regulating position and further preventing converter/ cooler flow restrictions. This is a drop in replacement that requires no machining..."
Source: by sonnaflow.com


&
MARCH 2, 1998



LIGHT TRUCK:
1989-97 F SUPER DUTY, F-250 HD, F-350
1989-98 ECONOLINE, F-150, F-250 LD
1990-96 BRONCO
1997-98 EXPEDITION
1998 NAVIGATOR

This TSB article is being republished in its entirety to correct the vehicles listed.

ISSUE:
Some vehicles may exhibit a flashing Transmission Control Indicator Lamp (TCIL) and Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs) 62, 628, and/or 1728 may be stored in memory. These DTCs can be set by any internal transmission element slippage or potentially by torque converter slippage.

ACTION:
Refer to the following text when servicing these codes.

NOTE:
WHEN SERVICING A VEHICLE WITH A FLASHING TCIL WITH DTCS 62, 628 AND/OR 1728, DO NOT REPLACE THE TORQUE CONVERTER UNLESS PROPER DIAGNOSIS HAS PROVEN THE TORQUE CONVERTER TO BE THE CAUSE.

Always verify the customer concern. Proper diagnosis for DTCs 62, 628 and/or 1728 may require talking to the customer to find out if there were any other symptoms associated with the TCIL flashing, (i.e., shift concerns, erratic/early/late, proper torque converter operation, etc.), prior to noticing the TCIL flashing.

Prior to transmission repairs for DTCs 62, 628 and/or 1728 or investigating other causes, repair all non-related transmission DTCs first, then repair all other transmission DTCs other than 62, 628 and/or 1728.

Some of the other causes that may result in DTCs 62, 628 and/or 1728 are as follows:

- Aftermarket modifications (i.e., performance enhancers, electrical modifications, etc.)

- Missing shifts (some/all)

- Transmission fluid leakage (internal and/or external)

- Erratic shift timing

- Valves, springs or retainers in the main control/accumulator body not assembled correctly, binding or sticking

- Check balls missing and/or mislocated. Damaged, unable to seal/seat properly

- Higher or lower than normal line pressure

- Transmission fluid restrictions and/or level

- Erratic/inoperative vehicle speed and/or rpm sensor

- Poor engine performance concerns

Any vehicle system concerns that could cause the strategy to detect a perceived internal slippage or change in the expected rpm of internal transmission rotating components may cause DTCs 62, 628 and/or 1728 to set.

NOTE:
ONCE DTCs 62, 628 AND/OR 1728 SET, OTHER TRANSMISSION FUNCTIONAL DTCs MAY NOT SET.

OTHER APPLICABLE ARTICLES:

-94-2-26

-96-10-14

SUPERSEDES: 98-1-23

WARRANTY STATUS: INFORMATION ONLY

OASIS CODES: 501000, 502000, 504000, 510000, 614000, 698298
- Aftermarket modifications (i.e., performance enhancers, electrical modifications, etc.) None all stock right down to the timing

- Missing shifts (some/all) All smooth and nice

- Transmission fluid leakage (internal and/or external) None That I know of externally

- Erratic shift timing None here

- Valves, springs or retainers in the main control/accumulator body not assembled correctly, binding or sticking Sticking maybe

- Check balls missing and/or mislocated. Damaged, unable to seal/seat properly I think I should have other issues if this was the case

- Higher or lower than normal line pressure

- Transmission fluid restrictions and/or level Level is good unknow about restrictions

- Erratic/inoperative vehicle speed and/or rpm sensor All worky

- Poor engine performance concerns A little stumble when accelerating from a stop sign. I mentioned this before no miss or anything just a dead spot.
 
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