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Cut & bent TTB!
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Discussion Starter #1
I never really hear to much good said about the TTB suspension that most of us use..

So I thought what better place to get a large number of peoples opinions on the subject..
Do you love it? & why, what makes it good? What can be done with it?

Do you hate it! & why? Whats wrong with it? what cant be done with it?

Are you one of those that feels the only way to get the front end right is a SAS swap?

I have heard desert racer types love the front end but I have yet to find any one to confirm this.(dont know any dersert dudes)


What I have heard is the TTB front end has problems with alingment.
I sometimes look at mine & see it with very negative camber other times it looks fine!
When I first got my bronco A few months ago I thought it wandered a lot on the freeway..(But now I'm use to it.)
I've also heard they are not so reliable in design more likely to fail.
& more costly to rebuild (up keep or modify )
But all this Is not from the peoples who opion matters the most to me!
actual bronco owners!!

I personally want my bronco to play good in mud & aticulate well on tricky trails..
So what do you think? :shrug
 

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Here we go again... this is going to start a big debate.
If you have the skill and time that an SAS requires, go for it, when they are tuned right they work really well. Most complaints about the ttb are the alignment issues. Although I had a couple problems I got it fixed, and it doesn't bother me anymore. As for flexing on tricky trails, it depends how tricky the trail is, my TTB flexes pretty well, but not as well as a well done sas. Quite frankly the TTB is perfectly fine for me right now, and as far as a solid axle being more reliable, if you don't run way oversized tires you won't have a problem with the TTB.
 

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We got some here that are hard core killer trail enthuesist. They will tell you TTB sux and SFA (Solid Front Axle) is the way to go. Ignore them if you desire only mild trail riding. They will also throw a slew of arguments about alignment problems and every other trick in the book to make you question the TTB. Yes, it has a personality unlike SFA, but its still far better and superior to TRUE IFS with upper/lower A-Arms and half shafts!

HTH, let the bashing on my reply start...
Andrew
 

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Cut & bent TTB!
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2,191 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Flexing

Due to the fact that the TTB flex'es in the middle I would imagine it would flex more than a SAS..? :shrug
But you say a well tuned SAS flex'es better? hhhmmm...

To all reading this ...When I respond like this questoning your comments its not in sarcasim or anything its just that I really dont know & I have lots of questons...

You might say I am kinda like a sponge want to soak up all the knowledge I can...

What would you say the biggest tire you could safely run with the stock bronco TTB? :shrug

How about the TTB from A F250?

Is there one In a F 350?
 

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Cut & bent TTB!
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Discussion Starter #5
bashing

MyFullSize said:
We got some here that are hard core killer trail enthuesist. They will tell you TTB sux and SFA (Solid Front Axle) is the way to go. Ignore them if you desire only mild trail riding. They will also throw a slew of arguments about alignment problems and every other trick in the book to make you question the TTB. Yes, it has a personality unlike SFA, but its still far better and superior to TRUE IFS with upper/lower A-Arms and half shafts!

HTH, let the bashing on my reply start...
Andrew
yeah I know that will be going on with out a doubt..

I kinda feel that this debate on witch is better is kinda like the ford vs chevy debate....( or am I wrong )
 

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cant afford it said:
Due to the fact that the TTB flex'es in the middle I would imagine it would flex more than a SAS..?
But you say a well tuned SAS flex'es better? hhhmmm...

What would you say the biggest tire you could safely run with the stock bronco TTB? :shrug

How about the TTB from A F250?

Is there one In a F 350?
1) An SFA hung vehicle, properly implimented, will flex like a devil! However, TTB without sway bars, from testimony of others, flexes extreamly well. I do
doubt that you can get a TTB to flex nearly as good as a well put together
SFA swap, but from photos and videos of others here with a lifted TTB, they have a pretty impressive amount of flex.

I had an '89 S-10 Blazer (4.3L), it incorporated upper and lower A-Arms, half shafts to deliver the power, center chunk that remained stationary which split the power, and torsion bars to provide spring suspension. There is *NOTHING* you can do with this setup to get noticable flex. I had a total of 4" flex, thats 2" up and 2" down, period! It just cant happen by the nature of the beast! (Good job GM, nice design! :) )

2) The front is a D44IFS, that is, Dana 44, Ind. Front Suspension. Its a psudo-IFS, not a true IFS as described in the S-10 Blazer. It should be able to handle 33" with a 351 behind it without any major problems. I think some have run up to 35" and lowered gears with little or no problem. I myself would stick with 33". The D44 is a pretty stout axle, for light to medium, and occasionally "give it hell", it should hold up fine. Bigger tires, more HP and gobs of skinny pedel will likely make it puike.

3) Im not as educated on this as others. I THINK the F250 either came with SFA, or D44IFS-HD? I dont think it would be worth the time or effort (or money) to swap over the axles. If you wanted SFA, Id rob the axle for that, but the strength of a D44 IFS and a D44 SFA are going to be "similar". I think the F350 only came with SFA. And, that would likely be a D60?

HTH...
Andrew
 

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I think the TTB did very well when i had it. i didnt have much alignment problems. i switched over to a SAS because i had the time and tools to do it. i also was looking for more lift since i wasnt able to fit the 6" coils and retain a good alignment (i've tried, something just wasnt right). once i did the SAS i've noticed it rode smoother but i still had some wandering which i got used to it. it does flex a bit better then the TTB but i can get more if i had longer shocks up front. i guess if you want to do more extreme wheeling go with a SAS. if not the TTB will do just fine
 

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Cut & bent TTB!
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Discussion Starter #9
But what about the pros & cons?

Nobody has really listed any pros & cons..
Ok I understand that you can run 35" tires as a limit to size
due to the lack of strengh but the straight axle is also a dana 44 so you could run the same limit as to tires, & be safe ( with out abuse )

Ok I am so far convinced staying with the TTB will be fine for now..

But why do some people just hate the TTB? :twak
Others swear by them.

Is it like I said early'er. "its like the old ford vs chevy debate." :boxing
or is one really better.
Is it just cooler to say ,"I have a straight axle conversion "

There must be a reason ford used the TTB for the long time that they did.
It seems that for real hardcore stuff you should think SAS OR SFA but for the average off roader TTB is fine.?

But aint those desert racer dudes hardcore?
I have heard so much second hand words that desert racers Swear by the TTB :shrug

Are any of you desert racers with TTB's?

I guess chris did mention he could get more lift & Noticed a smoother ride

Andrew mention properly tuned , more flex.

I guess thats 3 pros to the SAS or as andrew says SFA.

:shrug :banghead :histerica
 

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plug ugly said:
YAWN. totally beat to death. Try searching, this has been talked about more than I can count.

TTB does not flex, the rear does almost all the work, period.

F250 came with ttb D50s, no SA until the stupid duties
mine does :shrug
 

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Screw the Jeep Thing
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My Axle Flexed very well. I liked it.

TTB Axle

Pros
SMoother on road right
Simple to maintain
parts are all over the place for it
IT's already on the truck!!
Run faster on the trail

Cons
Wonders like Raf, in a parts store looking for that next part that broke.
Middle Ujoint will bind under extreme flex
Ujoints bind up more when a locker is installed.
No drain plug to drain fluid, have to remove the whole 3rd member
Alignment issues when used hard offroad
"Y" steering rods
Expensive to lift
Can't run really big tires
Lack of aftermarket upgradeable parts

Solid D44

Pros
Simple to maintain
Lots of aftermarket parts
only 2 Ujoints as opposed to the 3 of TTB
Less moving parts
Easier to make flex good
No alignment problems
Straight Tie rods not "Y" like TTB

Cons
Expensive to swap over to TTB equipt bronco
Rougher ride on highway
Not as good for highspeed offroad use.
 

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Cut & bent TTB!
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Discussion Starter #13
hey bronco85

Hey nice pro & con list.
But I do see some argument coming to that.

I know chris85xlt has said right off the bat that he noticed a smoother ride after the conversion.

I do like the point you made ( on the TTB pro list)
its already on the truck!

But you kinda made the straight axle sound better....

You had 9 items on your con list for the TTB
& you only had 3 for the straight axle.

You only had 5 pros for the TTB
& 7 for the straight axle.
 

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Screw the Jeep Thing
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I don't know what he's doing. but my ride got rougher. But he's got different springs. I'm running superflex 6" coils and 33" skyjacker shocks.
 

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The thing you have not taken into consideration, Afford It, is theres so many variables to the setups, not everyone will have the exact same results. Some switched to SFA from TTB, and lifted at the same time using springs with a higher spring rate, etc.. Of course if you left the TTB and put new springs in with a different rate, its going to ride different. Thus, the comment is not exactly related to the actual axle, but the suspension. That is just an example.

Heres the bottome line, Ill rehash it again, this is what it boils down to: Light to medium trail ride with 35" or less, keep the TTB. Give it hell all the time, want mega flex, have plenty of $$$ and time to piss away, go SFA.

FYI, Im going to install a 4" TTB lift as soon as the $$$ allows, can be bought for $600 or less, and add to it later (swap blocks for new springs, or do a shackle flip later, etc.. etc...)

HTHA,
Andrew
 

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Screw the Jeep Thing
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I plan to lift my 93 bronco as well with my old 6" lift I took of my 85. I loved the set up. I would still have it but I want to run a little harder with out worries of breaking brackets and such
 

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Cut & bent TTB!
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Discussion Starter #18
HU? witch one is it?

Heres the bottome line, Ill rehash it again, this is what it boils down to: Light to medium trail ride with 35" or less, keep the TTB. Give it hell all the time

HTHA,
Andrew[/QUOTE]

I am confused you said light to medium....." Then said give it hell all the time "
Can you still be wheeling light to medium while giving it hell? ( all the time no less?) :shrug
 

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cant afford it said:
God Damn It! said:
Heres the bottome line, Ill rehash it again, this is what it boils down to: Light to medium trail ride with 35" or less, keep the TTB. Give it hell all the time

HTHA,
Andrew
I am confused you said light to medium....." Then said give it hell all the time "
Can you still be wheeling light to medium while giving it hell? ( all the time no less?) :shrug
That was 2 different driving methods. I might should have broke it down for the 3rd graders to even understand, something like:

1) Light to medium....

or

2) Give it hell....

Which style do you desire?

Hope that clears it up to at least mud. :toothless
 

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negative creep
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the only situation i would rather have TTB is in high speed desert stuff. (a-arms are for the most part better, but cost more; and thats a whole nother debate that isn't even relevant here) but then again, to get it to perform really well, you're going to have to throw a lot of money at it. (i'd bet more than you would have to throw at an SAS to get it to perform well)

one of the biggest problems with TTB is that you don't get ANY forced articulation. (if you can't understand that, you have a lot of reading to do....) with coil overs, you can get the TTB to flex a lot better becuase you eliminate spring stretch. if you're going to go to coil overs, you would have an SAS that would flex beyond what the TTB could ever think of. TTB can flex good on paper, but get out in the real world and watch which end does more of the work. in most cases, the rear suspension does the vast majority of the work. put it on a ramp, the TTB just kinda sits there, while the rear does the work. put it on an incline where the weight on the front is reduced and less force to compress the springs; again, the rear does the work. without forced articulation, the TTB can't really flex, it just moves. :toothless

even if you *can* get the beams on the TTB to move close to what a solid axle will do, you still have the shittiest steering system ever. there really is no easy way to improve it. (unless you have many thousands of dollars, or you own a fab shop. the very fact that you are asking this question means you don't own a fab shop). then there is the issue of alignment, but i wheel mine hard and the only time its needed to be realigned is when i bent my radius arms a little. i've also seen plenty of solid axle vehicles driving around with tires like /--0-\

strength wise, a solid 44 offers no real advantage over the TTB. sure you can get CTMs and Warns and other aftermarket shafts/u-joints that you can't use on the TTB. but even then, its still just a 44. then you look at all the money you throw at the 44 to make it survive when you could have been 3/4 of the way to a 60 in the first place. bottom line, you really need to step up to a 60 to see an upgrade in strength.

F250s from 80-96 were TTB, either D44 or D50. not like theres a big difference between the two, the D50 is essentially a 44 with big hubs and brakes. same shafts, slightly bigger ring gear/pinion, and its still TTB. the best way to tell if its a d44 or d50 is what GAWR for the front was optioned (based on what i have seen and read).
 
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