[rugbyguitargod]

From what i can tell, there isn't a company that really makes a turbo kit for a 351w EFI Bronco. Would i be able to buy a kit for a 302 mustang and have it retrofitted? i will be using it for offroading, so i'd prefer a turbo that spools quickly down low. would i be better off with single turbo or TT? Any other special stuff id need to make it work effectively? not sure if i'd need to build the bottom end (only looking for about 450 to the wheels and lots of low end torque).

i am open to suggestions for the engine build, heads and cam as well. all in all, i think it would be much more cost-effective to boost the 351 instead of swapping in a power stroke or cummins engine. id obviously need to upgrade the E4OD tranny to handle the extra power as well as everything in the driveline (axles, rear diff, possibly solid axle swap on the front) which is something i'd have to do with a diesel swap anyways.

thoughts?

 

[79F150]

OK guys lets try this again and keep it civil! This is a flame free zone.:twak

 

[rugbyguitargod]

You want down low grunt available right away, go with an inline 6. You want the balls to push up steep and loose hill, go with a V8. You want a rock crawler that gets asked to wheel at the back of the pack, swap in a diesel.

your statement did not help nor was it even remotely informative. a diesel (namely a Cummins or Power Stroke) has way more balls than it's gas burner counterpart. not sure why a diesel rig would get asked to wheel at 'the back of the pack' as you put it.

Imho if you have to have boost go with a super charger. There is less plumbing, less under hood heat, and sound much better then a turbo on a truck.

i am not going for 'cool sounding'. i am going for performance and cost-effectiveness. FYI, research 'parasitic effect' from superchargers. slapping one of those on instantly kills 5-6 mpg off your fuel efficiency and are also harder on the rotating assembly (because of the parasitic draw on the pulley).

 

[rugbyguitargod]

also not sure why this got moved from the tech section. i did a few searches and got nothing on here.

 

[magnumpi]

It would probably be about the same price or CHEAPER to put in a cummins. and more dependable.

To make that kind of power you are going to have to do massive changes to the stock engine. The stock pistons cant handle the added power the turbo will make. The heads, intake, injectors, fuel pump, fuel lines, mass air, exhuast, air intake and probably more are going to have to be changed/upgraded. There will be a HUGE amount of tuning involved. You will either have to buy an aftermarket EFI system or get a tweecer/quater horse to tune the ford EEC. There is a HUGE learning curve to do this as well. You need to get an air charge cooler under the hood somewhere and a crapton of piping. The turbo is probably going to shorten the life of the engine as well.

You would be better off going with a stroker build (393, 408, 427) on your stock 351w block. Or a diesel swap (Navistar 7.3 or cummins 4bt/6bt) Either should be cheaper and the diesels would be worlds more dependable. A N/A 393 can come close to your 450hp power goal with less work/efi tuning involved.

As far as retrofitting a mustang turbo kit....i would just buy the parts seperate. so much stuff is going to have to be changed you would probably come out cheaper that way.

I have nothing against turbos...i love them, but for what you are trying to accomplish its not practical or needed.

 

[MuscleStang89]

I'd go with twin t4's and a front mount inter cooler. Then find a performance import shop around you to plumb the pipes. That being said, a roots style blower would be better. Near instant boost with a consistent power curve. Either way you go you'll be dropping lot of money so look into bolt on kits for a Whipple charger or Kenny Bell.

 

[Gene1219]

That sounds like it would be a really cool build. Small twin turbos to prevent lag, rebuild the 5.8 to 8.5 cr, throw on a mustang style intake to fit the 351 to get rid of the twin blade throttle body & to have the ability to get a bigger throttle body, Mild cam with as little overlap as you can get & a good set of aluminum heads;big injectors matched to your maf & megasquirt it for engine management and you're good to go. You will get better engine building tips & setups in a mustang forum

I really hope you build this. Worst case that you have to put the engine in a different application like a mustang.

Edit, scratch the idea for the megasquirt as it won't be able to control the e40d trans. A piggyback system should do just fine.

 

[Smok3y]

Since no one else will give you turbo info, I will. I've ran imports for years and though I've only turbo'd 1 car, I've been up on my F/I game for awhile.

First you do not want twin turbo. Nobody should even run twin turbo unless it's a track car. They are made to make boost down low and up top, the first smaller turbo spools fast, but can only hit a certain amount of CFM (we'll say 350 [air unit] CFM) the bigger turbo now spools ungodly slow (it probably peaks @ 4-4300rpms) but the CFM of air is upwards of we'll say 600. They are really for people who need instant power, and then need big power on straight/long wide open throttle runs. The big turbo eats a lot of fuel and air, and is pointless for a bronco. It'll probably blow the motor before you make any high power...

Also, you will have to figure out a way, and which side you will be running your turbo on. An inline 6 is the best bet for a turbo motor (6 cylinders worth of exhaust compared to 4 on one side of a V8), but you can have custom manifolds fabbed up (which will be some big $$$) to mount a turbo and piping. The issue would most likely be though, is that your will have to remove your A/C in order to fit it. I would try to stick with a "Log" style exhaust manifold. No crazy piping, it's a simple basic design that takes up about as much space as a regular exhaust manifold.

Turbo size, and inlet/exhaust are very important. You will need to research these #'s. I am not going to break it down for you, it will take me forever going back and forth with you and questions. I would start with sites for evo's, sti's, turbo DSM (eclipses, talons, etc etc) they have a lot of turbo information. You are going to want something that is small & spools fast. Something between a .48 & .60 trim.

T3/T4 and T3/To4 hybrid turbo's are very popular because they can spool quick and run good boost #'s. I'd take a look into those before anything else. The #'s after the T usually represent size. T3 turbo's are pretty tiny, you can run those too.

Please though, take the time to research there is a lot that goes into turbo'ing anything. Even if it was a lawn mower. You are much better off with a S/C like others said, the turbo you won't have instant power. S/C's go by RPM, there is no spool. When your RPM's go up, your boost goes up. With turbo's it takes time for the exhaust gasses to spin the turbo, but there is no parasitic draw as you so put it.

Also, both of them will be downing your MPG's, and most likely will max out your fuel injector cycle. Also you will need a higher CFM fuel pump for either. More air = you need more fuel. Otherwise you run lean and hot, and won't make the power.

I would go research till your fuggin fingers fall off. Just google turbo 351's or turbo ford 400m's (same block, same set up) you're bound to find something...

 

[Gene1219]

First you do not want twin turbo. Nobody should even run twin turbo unless it's a track car. They are made to make boost down low and up top, the first smaller turbo spools fast, but can only hit a certain amount of CFM (we'll say 350 [air unit] CFM) the bigger turbo now spools ungodly slow (it probably peaks @ 4-4300rpms) but the CFM of air is upwards of we'll say 600. They are really for people who need instant power, and then need big power on straight/long wide open throttle runs. The big turbo eats a lot of fuel and air, and is pointless for a bronco. It'll probably blow the motor before you make any high power...

I don't think you can run two different size turbos on a v8 engine. Since each bank would react differently and cause issues with boost. Usually a setup like the one you're describing is found on a inline 6 like toyota supras.


There's no way around it, the OP will have to rebuild the engine to handle boost. Sure he could run any type of forced induction, but he'll be on borrowed time. Turbo manifolds should be rather easy to come by, since they are designed for the tight compartments of a foxbody, with the additional room, they should fit in the bronco. I know on some single turbo kits the front subframe had to be notched on a fox body. Just make sure to go with high quality manifolds.

 

[Gene1219]

here's an image of a foxbody mustang with twin turbos to give you an idea on how it's done. As you can see, it's all rather compact and should fit in the bronco's large engine compartment.

 

[Smok3y]

Just because he can twin turbo, doesn't mean he should. And I can tell you that the stock bottom end of a 351 will not handle a large turbo running any more than 7-8psi. After that he definitely runs the risk of blowing it up.

Even honda accord 2.2 iron cylinder walls (which are tough as nails) are rated for no more than 10psi on a small turbo or 8psi on a large. And again, thats iron walls, forged internals.

The block will need to be sleeved for anything more.

**Edit** I missed this quote actually---

I don't think you can run two different size turbos on a v8 engine. Since each bank would react differently and cause issues with boost. Usually a setup like the one you're describing is found on a inline 6 like toyota supras.


There's no way around it, the OP will have to rebuild the engine to handle boost. Sure he could run any type of forced induction, but he'll be on borrowed time. Turbo manifolds should be rather easy to come by, since they are designed for the tight compartments of a foxbody, with the additional room, they should fit in the bronco. I know on some single turbo kits the front subframe had to be notched on a fox body. Just make sure to go with high quality manifolds.

Yes you can, it's the exact same theory. Because regardless one bank will run 1 turbo, the other bank will run the 2nd. So you want 1 small and 1 big. That's the whole point of a TT design. Otherwise you can just go with a single large turbo, you'll get a higher amount of boost out of it. One spools quick with low boost, the other spools slow with high boost. A single turbo pulls more power than any twin turbo design out there...

But yes you are correct, he will have to rebuild for anything large enough to put down real #'s. I hadn't thought about the foxbody 351 turbo swaps, so yea you are correct there probably will be some turbo manifolds out there, but I would still stick with "Log style" due to the compact design.

You will also have to clean the engine bay up a lot, and a battery relocation would be ideal. somewhere inside the truck would be perfect, maybe in the back storage area. I have write ups if you need them (alot of the turbo tuner crowd has done batter relocation, also looking at the mustang above, that has too!)

 

[Gene1219]

Just because he can twin turbo, doesn't mean he should. And I can tell you that the stock bottom end of a 351 will not handle a large turbo running any more than 7-8psi. After that he definitely runs the risk of blowing it up.

Even honda accord 2.2 iron cylinder walls (which are tough as nails) are rated for no more than 10psi on a small turbo or 8psi on a large. And again, thats iron walls, forged internals.

The block will need to be sleeved for anything more.

I don't think I'm debating what the stock internals will or will not hold. I believe it should be a given that the engine will need be rebuilt to withstand forced induction...Even if it's under 8psi. Any 15+ year old engine will have miles, wear and tear ect on it, at which it will be on borrowed time with forced induction.

 

[Gene1219]

Yes you can, it's the exact same theory. Because regardless one bank will run 1 turbo, the other bank will run the 2nd. So you want 1 small and 1 big. That's the whole point of a TT design. Otherwise you can just go with a single large turbo, you'll get a higher amount of boost out of it. One spools quick with low boost, the other spools slow with high boost. A single turbo pulls more power than any twin turbo design out there...

Back in my drag racing days, other than an inline motor, i've never seen a v8 run 2 different sized turbos...never, then again what I don't know can fill an entire wikipedia site :rofl: Also, isn't running 2 different sized turbos called sequential? where one spools the other? Which in that case he would have to run 4 turbos, 2 on each side?

The only turbo experience i have is a single draw through type on my 52 chevy with a 350. Far from what is planned on the OP build and rather ancient.

here's some tt porn!!! note both turbos are the same size

 

[Smok3y]

Back in my drag racing days, other than an inline motor, i've never seen a v8 run 2 different sized turbos...never, then again what I don't know can fill an entire wikipedia site :rofl: Also, isn't running 2 different sized turbos called sequential? where one spools the other? Which in that case he would have to run 4 turbos, 2 on each side?

I didn't address this earlier when you said that the different banks would run different exhaust pressure/cfm (I'm assuming you meant) when you said it would mess up w/ the different sides

Each bank, though running a different set up of firing order (different exhaust air flow, one with more or less at different cycles of each rpm) but with every 1-rpm, it will be the same exhaust/intake cycle with both sides included. The will have the same amount of exhaust gasses spooling both (you figure 1 full cycle, is all 8 cylinders in 1 revolution) the amount of the difference at 4000 rpm's would be minimal at best.

The sequential you are talking about is different. Again you are correct tho, one spools the other, but that is different than a twin turbo set up. That's bi-turbo (or sequential). Running 2 same sized turbo's is nothing more than a bragging factor to say you have TT and big nuts. It's better to run a single turbo than 2 of the same size. But yes you are correct with sequential, but that is definitely highly impractical (Bi-turbo set up set to run 4 turbo's) I couldn't even imagine that in a bronco...

here's some tt porn!!! note both turbos are the same size

:hump:hump

**another edit**
I will admit, a twin turbo set up on a v8 would be an easier build with 1 easy style manifold per side and then matching turbo's. Without a doubt and I think maybe that's more what you are getting at. I was just simply stating a single turbo is a higher horsepower type build. But I'm kinda rambling on something about a high horsepower build the op won't use. I believe you are correct and you are debating this much more correct than I am.

 

[raleigh]

This is a remote turbo. No heat under the hood and you get flow from both banks with out twins.

 

[Gacknar]

thoughts?

I would not do this.

 

[jopes]

I would not do this.

your no fun.


I would put on a roots style blower. they tend to give more power off the line than any turbo could.

 

[wood744]

I would do a remote mount towards the rear of the vehicle like this http://ststurbo.com/

I have also heard that the headers on a 5.0 can be flipped so the exhaust output is toward the front of the engine. From there, you could run 2 turbos or run a crossover with flex pipe to a single turbo. I don't know if this would work on a 351.

 

[LarryP]

also not sure why this got moved from the tech section. i did a few searches and got nothing on here.

I moved it, if there is a problem pm me:thumbup