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Why not Chris you where doing well on the other post:goodfinge have a:beer on me mabe we will see you on the trail this weekend.
 

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repost to a more correct thread title:

well broncoboy,
I am older then you.
I am also not a rat, like you.
If I see someone doing something that I feel strongly against, I tell them.

I respect you desire m j, but I don't condone any of your actions.
How can you condone my actions when you in fact are unaware of any of my actions.


As for key programs; wouldn't you like to know that said key program would be in affect and you can go do that trail any time you want, no questions asked? Sounds like a wheelers dream, eh?
no, I do not think that sounds like a wheelers dream.
It sounds like a prisoners dream.
a wheelers dream is 'no gates, no keys, wheel when and where I want'
you are a collaborator.
you are helping them take our land away.
you do not speak for me
 

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m j said:
well broncoboy, I am older then you.

My apologies then, but remember, it was an impression you gave me. ;)



I am also not a rat, like you.

I'm a rat? Please explain.



If I see someone doing something that I feel strongly against, I tell them.

Good, but cutting down gates is fine? :confused:



How can you condone my actions when you in fact are unaware of any of my actions.

You previously said "I respect a guy cutting the gate more then your 'key program". What more do I need to know?



no, I do not think that sounds like a wheelers dream. It sounds like a prisoners dream. a wheelers dream is 'no gates, no keys, wheel when and where I want'

Yes having no gates is the ultimate dream, but gates are a reality. The sooner you and others realize that, the sooner you and others can move on to the important details. Why are gates where they are? To keep unauthortized people off that land. Why can't wheelers get the keys for those gates that they used to? Because a select few continue with the/your "wheel when and where I want" attitude. This attitude also includes cutting the locks and/or the gates. This activity has to stop or there will be no future fo this sport . These select few just don't realize how much damage they are causing us.



you are a collaborator.

If you mean "to work jointly with others or together especially in an intellectual endeavor" then you are correct. I guess you are not?



you are helping them take our land away.

Sorry, nope!



you do not speak for me

You could not be more correct. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #10
A little more fuel


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Originally posted by SNIBB
if you wanna stop sounding offensive you can start with not calling strangers dicks & tellin them to STFU.
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I'm Matt. You're Kyle. There, we're not strangers now, so.....
ha, ha. Seriously, save your social skills lesson for somebody else. I'm not interested in hearing them from a teenager.


quote:
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but you are right, & im glad your open minded enuf to think about the view from the other side of the fence. but your entire story is quite a big "what if" statement, just to prove a point im sure.
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Of course it's a big "what if". It was a big, run-on sentence that was meant to sound rediculous enough to maybe be humorous, but also make you think, "ya know, that's something that those wacko-tree-huggers would probably do..." And that is all it was meant as. If the dick comment offends, try imagining Dennis Leary reading it, or something (I don't know)


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& another thing, closing what wheeling land? out here, there is ONE leagal place to wheel at in Maryland that i know of. offering another perspective, i say, if you got the places, go wheeling. again, nice pcs donkey .
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The world is bigger than Maryland, my friend. You folks who think it's no big deal to tear shit up, need to pull your heads out of your asses. Pick up any 4x4 mag and you'll read about land closures all the time. Ever wonder what that phrase Tread Lightly means?
Here's a quote from an email I got last night from another list:


quote:
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Gang....I seldom post things of this nature as you all well know. This situation is rather grave in
that we all stand to loose land in Utah to publicly access. This doesn't just effect people that go
off road with there Broncos or what ever they drive. It also will affect many who might just wish to
go see ancient Indian culture and many other VERY historic offerings the Moab area offers. Anyone
who considers our God given right to share this with our children, the elderly, handicapped, or even
just the simple fact it is WRONG to deny anyone access as long as they respect the land, needs to go
write a E mail to that effect, hopefully helping voice a concern about closures the BLM will listen
to. Every letter counts....

Thanks for your time


The Bureau of Land management is responsible for over 3.6 million acres of public land in Grand and San Juan counties in Utah. A Resource Management Plan (RMP)
Is the document that guides the Management and policies of the land it covers.
The next RMP will guide decision making in these areas for the next 15 years.
By Federal law, the BLM must consider public opinion in the preparation of the RMP. That is where we come in.
The Moab meeting was on OCT. 16th. About fifty people attended, but only 5 from the Red Rock 4 wheelers. MOST attendees were strong advocates of either severely restricting or totally eliminating all motorized use on BLM land. We are clearly outnumbered!
The good news is that public comments will be taken until Dec 30, 2003.
We must make our voices heard if we have any hope of having our wishes and concerns being considered in the final draft of RMP.
We need all 4-wheelers to write a few comments of how important continued motorized access is to us all in Moab. You can write or email the BLM office
www.moabrmp.com or www.monticellormp.com

Look for planning action #3
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I suspect I'm on Keith L's ignore list, otherwise I'd ask him to post some info on the closure of Upper/Lower Helldorado too.

I'm done with this conversation.

-matt


__________________
95xl/302/m5od/bw1356/solid d44(4.56 open)/8.8(4.56 detroit)/6"sl,
1"bl/36x14.50

got dammit?
 

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I won't hide the fact that I have reported several individuals for such activities
That is you admitting to being a Rat.

cutting down gates is fine?
if said gate is blocking me from public lands, yup.

How can you condone my actions when you in fact are unaware of any of my actions.

You previously said "I respect a guy cutting the gate more then your 'key program". What more do I need to know?
is there an 'action' in there?

Yes having no gates is the ultimate dream
so why not work towards that aim?

gates are a reality. The sooner you and others realize that, the sooner you and others can move on to the important details.
the gates are the important detail

Why are gates where they are? To keep unauthortized people off that land.
who decides the 'authorized' part? This is the important part.

Why can't wheelers get the keys for those gates that they used to?
this question is fairly stupid. WHY ARE THERE GATES?

Because a select few continue with the/your "wheel when and where I want" attitude.
that attitude is called 'freedom'.
you might be unfamiliar with it but the rest of the province, you know that bit outside of the lower mainland, enjoys it without gates everywhere.

This attitude also includes cutting the locks and/or the gates. This activity has to stop or there will be no future fo this sport
this attitude has to increase to save the 'sport'.
stand up for our rights

select few just don't realize how much damage they are causing us.
I agree with this line, your collaboration with closures is going to kill our free lands.
you aquiese our rights away by submitting to the gates.

then you blame us for the fact that there are gates.
again, if there were no closures or gates how would one surreptitiously circumvent them?
it defies logic.

so you can stuff the accusations that you levy against 'fellow' wheelers where the sun dont shine.

the elitist key mentality turns my stomach.
 

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will you be happy when the key program includes your front door key?
who do you ask for permission to go outside?
 

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m j said:
That is you admitting to being a Rat.

Oh, a rat! I thought you meant a little fury rodent. :D
So what is wrong with reporting a crime?



if said gate is blocking me from public lands, yup.

This is an illegal act. So then you cut down the gate, us wheelers get blamed for it (yes, it happens all the time), another gate goes up. That's a nice circle you play in.



is there an 'action' in there?

Typing is an action. ;)



so why not work towards that aim?

WTF do you think I have been doing for the past 5 years or so.



the gates are the important detail

One of many pieces of the "important detail".



who decides the 'authorized' part? This is the important part.

Government, greenies, burocracy, etc.



this question is fairly stupid. WHY ARE THERE GATES?

Yes, that is a stupid question. The gates are there to keep unauthorized people out. Depending on where said gate is, the reasons may differ, but it is typically to keep stolen vehicles and trash from being dumped. So after the gate goes up, you say "**** this, that is my land. cut the gate down." I go the city or municipality and say "it's a shame that people have to ruin the area by dumping their trash. Let's work together so us responsible wheelers can still use this land". Do you see how the system works? No, cuz your out cutting that gate down again.


that attitude is called 'freedom'. you might be unfamiliar with it but the rest of the province, you know that bit outside of the lower mainland, enjoys it without gates everywhere.

Don't worry m j, I know how this sport is played all across our Province, Country and Continent.



this attitude has to increase to save the 'sport'.

Cutting down gates is going to save our sport. Sweet. I'm gonna bring that up at the next meeting and see how that goes over.


stand up for our rights.

Right back at'cha. You do realize that a small group of dedicated wheelers are fighting very hard for us, and after they get us 3 steps forward, your kind takes a flying leap and pulls us 10 steps backwards.



I agree with this line, your collaboration with closures is going to kill our free lands. you aquiese our rights away by submitting to the gates.

No submitting. It's called working with the population. You should try it sometime. ;)



then you blame us for the fact that there are gates.
again, if there were no closures or gates how would one surreptitiously circumvent them? it defies logic.


So just pretend the gates aren't there and do as I want? Nice logic. You may not be the reason the gates were errected in the first place, but you are part of the reason that they are still there.



so you can stuff the accusations that you levy against 'fellow' wheelers where the sun dont shine.

Why would I want to go into your world my so called "fellow wheeler".



the elitist key mentality turns my stomach.

Now you know how I feel about people that cut down gates.


Bottom line, we all want the same thing, access to our land. The problem is that some choose to be rebels, and other follow the channels of our democratic society. M j, do you ever come out to any meetings, events or anything to help our cause? Any support or help for U4WDA, 4WDABC, MRCBC or others? You just don't realize that you are hurting the cause more than you are helping it. If you are true to your actions, the only thing you are helping is yourself.
 

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ya forgot, I do not respect locks.
I will be out wheelin
you will be stuck at home making a snot print on your window
 

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Just to clarify, I don't like gates, but they are a reality and I am doing MY best to deal with the situation.

m j, you speak so highly of your side, so here is a question for you......... what is your solution to OUR gate problem?
 

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Just to clarify, I don't like gates, but they are a reality and I am doing MY best to deal with the situation.

m j, you speak so highly of your side, so here is a question for you......... what is your solution to OUR gate problem?
well for one, guys like you could stop accepting them as 'reality' and start working to open OUR land to us.
this means a hard and fast refusal to respect the gates rather then a passive 'please let me have a key'.
the 'key' route is a sound defeat.

would you bargain wages with your employer by accepting a 99% rollback at the first meeting?
by your acceptance of the 'key' it sounds like you would do that if your wage stayed high but 99% of your fellow employees get the wage cut.
Would you be surprized if, after selling them out, they beat your ass in the parking lot?
Using that analogy do you think I should be applauding the 'key program' supporters?
The program effectively locks 99% of wheelers from the land.

you could stop throwing blame for the closures on other wheelers, as it simply isnt so.
I have never seen a credible source that wheeling was the reason for a closure.

The smoke n mirrors using litter and stolen car dumping as the justification for closures is piss poor at best.
litter will still occur, car theft will still occur whether the gates are blocking me from my recreation or not.
If you want to punish litterers and thieves simply catch them and prosecute them.
I am niether a litterer or thief so leave me the XXXX alone.
Using safety and liability as justification is even more ridiculous.
In Canada, our courts simply do not follow the US example of paying morons for their stupidity.

It seems a typical case of 'wanna be' responding to US problems that do not exist here in BC.
 
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