Bronco Forum - Full Size Ford Bronco Forum banner
1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
23,821 Posts
Moser has always made a hi-quality product, big in the racing scenes.
but unless they changed thier front shafts, they always brought the suck for upgraded strenght. yukon d44 shafts are not much stronger than stockers either. :thumbup
 

·
Former owner of Shadofax
Joined
·
17,475 Posts
I would say they are inferrior to warn. Possibly to most other 4340 shafts. For some reason (cost?) moser does not make these from 4340 alloy.

Moser info:
http://www.moserengineering.com/Pages/Axles/max4460.html
THE MAX 44 AND 60 FRONT PERFORMANCE AXLES
The next generation of tough off-road front axles has arrived. The Max - Moser 44 and 60 Front Performance Axles. Made from aircraft quality 4140 American metals, our axles are thru-hardened throughout the entire shaft for superior strength, and finished by oil quenching and tempering each individual shaft.


From Pirate, Billavista info. take it for what it's worth, it's not my info:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/PR-BV60/index1a.html
SAE 4130
Best known of the family of CHROME-MOLY steels, 4130 is often considered, in racing circles, to be the ideal steel for all high-strength/high-stress applications. IT IS NOT! In thin sections (that is, in tube or sheet form) its unique combination of excellent tensile strength, toughness and response to mild heat treatment combined with its good formability in the annealed condition and its outstanding welding characteristics make it virtually unbeatable for fabrications subject to high stress levels. It is critical that all welds be stress relieved. I prefer the use of OXWELD 32 CMS welding rod with 4130 for the simple reason that it both normalizes and heat treats well in conjunction with 4130. Many welders prefer to use a stainless rod, but the high nickel content of stainless welding rods means that the weldment will not respond well to heat treatment. Since I believe that not heat treating 4130 fabrications is DUMB (if you don't heat treat you end up with an expensive part with the same strength as 1020—and brittle weld areas). Smith's law says to use the heat-treatable rod for EVERYTHING. I heat treat 4130 fabrications to Rock-well C Scale 26 to 30 and no higher. This results in an ultimate tensile strength of about 130,000 psi with sufficient ductility that I do not have to worry about brittle parts. The other side of the 4130 coin, often unknown to (or at least unappreciated by) the racer, is that it possesses poor deep-heat-treating characteristics and has an inborn dislike of varying cross-sections. These characteristics make 4130 a poor choice for machined or forged parts—it doesn't forge very well anyway. It also doesn't machine very well, at least in the normalized condition—too gummy. Those people who make hubs, steering knuckles and the like from 4130 are kidding themselves—and their customers. It doesn't make very good shafts, either, as in drive shaft, or axle, or torsion bar.

SAE 4140
This is a deep hardening chrome-moly steel with excellent impact resistance, fatigue strength and general all-around toughness. It is commonly used for small-aircraft forgings. I use it in bar form for all of the little gub-bins and small parts that we are always machining. It doesn't weld as well as 4130 but it does weld satisfactorily. Welded to 4130 tube or sheet, with Oxweld 32 rod, a 4140 machined component can be heat treated to the same spec as 4130.

SAE 4340
This is the nickel-chrome-moly deep-hardening steel that we SHOULD use, in its vacuum-melted configuration, for our hub forgings, drive shafts, axles and the like
. Its tensile strength, toughness, fatigue resistance, excellent deep-heat-treating characteristics and very high tolerance of stress reversals (which is just another way of saying that it has excellent fatigue resistance) make it just about unbeatable. It is also weldable (with care and a lot of pre-and post-heat) and eminently forgeable. In use it should be heat treated to the 180,000—200,000 psi range, maximum—although it can be taken to 220,000 psi without significant loss of toughness. The hardness range between Rockwell C Scale 46 and 48 should be avoided with this steel as it becomes brittle in this range.


I did also find a nice article, Jopes on 4340 and how supposedly 4340 is not exactly the same "grade" of material as American made stuff. Something I was always thinking (and yet I bought Yukon 4340 due to price). It IS the same material, it's just that 4340 standards are different globally. And I'm not sure there actual process is the same either, which is why Warn likely still stands as the best.
 

·
Need a Bumper?
Joined
·
5,055 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I was wondering about the 4140 vs. 4340 alloys. I was told today by a local 4x4 shop that superior and some others only heat treat the splines and stubs of their axles but that warn heat treats the entire shaft which is what gives it more durrability. It just seems to me that for warns costing around $750 for the front not including u joints compared to superiors for almost half of that, are the warns really worth the money?
 

·
Former owner of Shadofax
Joined
·
17,475 Posts
That's where it becomes your decision.

I heard this, I heard that. I'm sure some of what is heard/written is certainly true. But in the end, warn shafts matched with quality alloy joints are going to be over $1000, probably closer to $1100 once shipped.

yukon joints and superjoints were $675 for me. I just could not cough up another $400 and was willing to try these. Same choice for you.

Aurorabusa just broke an ox joint after 3 years of use. While I have not wheeled my rig hard, so far what it's been used for I have had no issue with the axleshafts. Depending on what your wheeling setup (big block? low geared including manual tranny? Large tires, etc.) and style of driving are might help you decide.

Also, what do you plan to do with joints? Your front driveline to the wheels is only as strong as the weakest link. And if a Ujoint goes, so goes a shaft yoke or two (usually).
 

·
Need a Bumper?
Joined
·
5,055 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
That's where it becomes your decision.

I heard this, I heard that. I'm sure some of what is heard/written is certainly true. But in the end, warn shafts matched with quality alloy joints are going to be over $1000, probably closer to $1100 once shipped.

yukon joints and superjoints were $675 for me. I just could not cough up another $400 and was willing to try these. Same choice for you.

Aurorabusa just broke an ox joint after 3 years of use. While I have not wheeled my rig hard, so far what it's been used for I have had no issue with the axleshafts. Depending on what your wheeling setup (big block? low geared including manual tranny? Large tires, etc.) and style of driving are might help you decide.

Also, what do you plan to do with joints? Your front driveline to the wheels is only as strong as the weakest link. And if a Ujoint goes, so goes a shaft yoke or two (usually).
My initial thought was to stick with the yukon or moser axles and I was looking at both the ox and ctm joints. I liked that the moser max axles were built thicker around the ujoint (a common break point). I know that with running a mildly built 400, manual trans. and 4.56 gears, all on 38's I'm pushing the limits of the 44 and probably need to upgrade to a 60. However, that is just not in the budget right now so in the meantime I'm looking for something relatively affordable:doh0715: that I can run until I have the funds to do the 60 swap. Plans include: alloy shafts & ujoints, LS diff(not too much strain on the rest off the mess) and off course I have to replace the ball joints too. (definately gonna get the kingpin style 60) I've heard really good things about the Warn shafts but the extra 400 is a lot to swallow.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
23,821 Posts
My initial thought was to stick with the yukon or moser axles and I was looking at both the ox and ctm joints. I liked that the moser max axles were built thicker around the ujoint (a common break point). I know that with running a mildly built 400, manual trans. and 4.56 gears, all on 38's
I had that combo except with warns and CTM's well they lasted a year before the dana 44 decided it wanted to take a shit and well everything needed to be replaced. In that year of wheeling I had to replace 2 broken warn stub shafts.

I went to a 60 with stock spicer 35 spline shafts and after 2 years and doing something stupid I finally ripped the ears off of a shaft.


leave the 44 alone, buy a D60.
 

·
Ford Hoarder
78 & 92
Joined
·
8,672 Posts
I got a set of moser max 44's for mine, haven't put the axle togethor yet though. I am going to run Yukon super joints in them.
But I am only going to be running 35's max, and open in the front, I don't think I'll have an issue with them as I think the stock ones would of taken 95% of what I plan on doing.

And JBG is out of the the yukon shafts superjoint combo, they said it would be novemeber.
 

·
Former owner of Shadofax
Joined
·
17,475 Posts
My initial thought was to stick with the yukon or moser axles and I was looking at both the ox and ctm joints. I liked that the moser max axles were built thicker around the ujoint (a common break point). I know that with running a mildly built 400, manual trans. and 4.56 gears, all on 38's I'm pushing the limits of the 44 and probably need to upgrade to a 60. However, that is just not in the budget right now so in the meantime I'm looking for something relatively affordable:doh0715: that I can run until I have the funds to do the 60 swap. Plans include: alloy shafts & ujoints, LS diff(not too much strain on the rest off the mess) and off course I have to replace the ball joints too. (definately gonna get the kingpin style 60) I've heard really good things about the Warn shafts but the extra 400 is a lot to swallow.
keep in mind though, they all likely do that. I'm sure warn does, and I know yukon does having bought those shafts and had them in my hand comparing to OEM. They went as big as the hole in my chevy knuckle would allow in terms of fitting through. Added beef on the outside of the ears, but remember, beef taken away from the inner of the ears for fitment of fullcircle clips.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,453 Posts
Hefty. Shipping is a killer on those axles (D-60). You should be able to find one down in Denver. Maybe some of the local guys on here would be willing to make a few calls.

My guy is Dick @ 4togo. West 44th Ave. Wheat Ridge. I think all the junk yards are on a computer so they can all see what each other has.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
23,821 Posts
Jopes, any leads on a good 60?
check out pirates forsale section. I see them all the time in there. from stock to completely built

And to say it is too expensive, there is a person on here that just posted wanting to know if $350 was too much for a axle missing the shafts and spindles. D60. it would be well worth it to buy it and toss in a set of yukon 35 spline shafts and some 5-806x spicers.
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top