East coast thinks in terms of small distances :goodfinge

100 miles is nothing, expand your search to at least 250 miles. When I was searching for a 60 front I was willing to go 500 miles. I only wound up having to go a little over 200. But I wouldnt' go so far for 44 fronts, they're far more common.

Juice, basically what you said. It depends upon how Ford rotated the inner knuckles. I just don't know if they positioned them differently for coil vs leaf, but it wouldn't surprise me if they did. You'd have to cut and turn the inner knuckles if you couldn't find a decent compromise between positive caster and pinion angle. It's personally not something I'd be comfortable doing without a high dollar digital angle finder and more experience welding cast, but people do it "shadetree" quite a bit.

 

Well, I got a lead on a supercab 44 with 5 lug and spring perches. Wish me luck, waiting to hear back something still. Shipping is going to be about $250+... Gawd, mama is gonna de-nut me if I buy this thing. :brownbag

If she gives me any lip, I may have to twack her for it. :twak

Hopefully, it wont turn into a battle though... :boxing

Heres the thing, she said "the next vehicle you buy, its going to be less than 5 years old, so we wont go though all this shit again" (This, right after a $340 bill for new distributor, coil and ing modual... Then the same week $320 to a new bearing and Warn hub that got chewed) :banghead

So, my plan is to not get rid of the Bronco, instead KEEP it and keep putting money into it, since anything newer will be a lesser truck! :chili:

This means I dont have permission to sell the Bronco with TTB to get a K5 Blazer with SFA. If Im going to get what I want, I have to convert the Bronco into what I want. :shocked

 

After reading this and just thought of something. I have been debating between on doing a coil or leaf sprung SAS. I have a 78 D60 so it has a longer driver side axle tube than 86+ ones. Now if I choose to do leaf sprung, will I encounter problems getting the leafs to sit nicely on the axle perches? From what I have heard the 70's frames were a little narrower.

 

Been covered

5. What’s the deal with spring perch spacing? This is measured from center of one spring perch to the center of the other spring perch and is pretty important to your swap. There are basically two numbers you need to know here: 32” and 36.25” (approx). Any leaf sprung 4x4 from the late ‘70s will be 32”. This worked great for the framerails of that era which were essentially straight. However, if you look at the framerails of your ‘80+ Bronco when kneeling in front of the vehicle you’ll see that the framerails go in and out, particularly around the coil tower/shock tower.

’86+ (the year which Ford returned to solid axles – Dana 60s- on it’s F350s) is based upon a 36” center to center spacing to accommodate the wider, wackier frame. Note that for the most part every ’80-97 Ford truck, Bronco thru F350, used basically the same frame from the framehorns to the firewall.

*In my opinion* if you’re working with an ’80 Bronco and you want to do a leaf SAS, it is easier to use 36” spring spacing (otherwise the hangers I mentioned above will not work for you). This means if you find a donor axle with 32” spacing, you can simply move the spring perches out to the wider spacing. This what we did with Beerman’s swap. If you are using an ‘80+ frame and want to run the 32” spacing, you will need to build a custom crossmember up front, see Bronco Boy’s swap for an example of this.

You should also read this:
http://www.2bigbroncos.org/technical/d60/index.html

 

Is it possible to mount the perches at 32" spacing with an 86+ D60?

 

Since the drivers perch is cast into the diff housing, and it's only a couple inches from the knuckle, your options are pretty limited.

 

Is it possible to mount the perches at 32" spacing with an 86+ D60?

Nope. You can see the diff is occupying that space:

 

So in order to go with the 32" perch spacing a earlier model D60 must be used.

Larson, How "in the way" are the springs at 36" spacing with 42's like you are using? What BS are your wheels?

For my sas I am planning on using 57" rear leafs and 42's on 15x10 with 2.75" or less backspacing. I am concerned about leaf spring to tire interference(rubbing). That's why I was thinking of going with 32" perches vs the 36" spacing. Am I making more of a problem than it is really going to be?

 

I can tell you that 38s rub the leafs when I turn the wheel all the way. It seems to be worse in reverse as well. I do only have like 4 1/2" of backspacing though. Given the choice I'd run 3" of backspacing. That's my plan whenever I get to the bigger tires.

 

So in order to go with the 32" perch spacing a earlier model D60 must be used.

Larson, How "in the way" are the springs at 36" spacing with 42's like you are using? What BS are your wheels?

For my sas I am planning on using 57" rear leafs and 42's on 15x10 with 2.75" or less backspacing. I am concerned about leaf spring to tire interference(rubbing). That's why I was thinking of going with 32" perches vs the 36" spacing. Am I making more of a problem than it is really going to be?

The 42's hit so many other things that the springs are the least of my problems :banghead By the time I got everything adjusted to where the tires cleared the front frame horn, the firewall, the headlights, and the heater box, they cleared the springs nicely Your biggest obstacle is the radiator support mount, it's majorly in the way. I run recentered Hummer rims with about 4.5 inches backspacing.

I wouldn't run 2.5" backspacing with tires this large. It's just too much leverage on knuckle parts and your scrub radius will be rediculous. It works with smaller tires, but I wouldn't do it with anything bigger than 38's or so, just my personal opinion.

The D60 stops have enough adjustment that you can clear the springs and still have a relatively decent turning radius. It's not too big a deal.

 

Larston, you are only running like 6" of lift arent you? How much lift would someone need to avoid some of the problems you ran into? I am using 32" spacing which will help some, and am shooting for no more than 8 - 10" of lift.

 

I think I'm close to 8" of lift. If I had any bigger tires than 38's I'd be hitting the radiator support bracket too. I'll have to inboard it like Larston did. I'm thinking of running tube from the body (maybe to the cage if I have one) to the radiator to alleviate the need for the front quarter. I may rivit sections on for looks though. I'll also be inboarding the battery(s) like Blown did in his project. This is all stuff I'll do one step at a time now though. I be wheelin now. :twotu:

 

If anyone gives a shat, Jobrite seems to have plenty of these. I just ordered mine today @ $45 a pop. Seemed a little spendy to me, but I'm lazy, and I dont care.

http://www.jobriteauto.com/

 

Larston, you are only running like 6" of lift arent you? How much lift would someone need to avoid some of the problems you ran into? I am using 32" spacing which will help some, and am shooting for no more than 8 - 10" of lift.

My total lift is somewhere in the 7" range. I limit uptravel to 4 inches at the frame to keep from smacking my high steer drag link. Even then, the tire hits the bottom of the AC box (did I mention those are BIG FREAKIN' TIRES???)

I think that 10 inches would probably be enough to keep the tires out of trouble as long as you limited up travel. That much lift would allow you moderate up travel (5 inches at the frame) for decent flex, but would keep the tires below the firewall to help turning radius. Another thing that would help a lot is to move the axle forward as far as you can (a la Big Norm), which will put you into the backs of the headlights and turn signals, but that's a much easier problem to deal with and at that lift may not even be a problem.

A couple other items to watch for with the big meats is you have to flatten the firewall seams to keep from cutting the tires, and you'll want to relocate the ebrake cable so it comes out lower on the firewall. And of course, the unwritten obvious mod is cutting the fenders and rebuilding/removing the inner fenders. With 10 inches lift, you'd have to do much less of this than I did.

 

If anyone gives a shat, Jobrite seems to have plenty of these. I just ordered mine today @ $45 a pop. Seemed a little spendy to me, but I'm lazy, and I dont care.

http://www.jobriteauto.com/

Jobrite is expensive, but OTOH, pricing is in Canuck Bucks, so it will cost you a bit less. My buddy works for another wrecker here..... they want (and get) $3000 CDN for a front D60! :wowcb:

 

Jobrite is expensive, but OTOH, pricing is in Canuck Bucks, so it will cost you a bit less.

Hmmm, well maybe it'll be cheaper but I think it was $45 in US dollars. I'll have to check my bank statement. They always ask whether or not I'm local, so I figured that was the adjusted price. Either way, being too lazy to go scrounge around the wrecking yards, I dont care about the price.

 

The 42's hit so many other things that the springs are the least of my problems :banghead By the time I got everything adjusted to where the tires cleared the front frame horn, the firewall, the headlights, and the heater box, they cleared the springs nicely Your biggest obstacle is the radiator support mount, it's majorly in the way. I run recentered Hummer rims with about 4.5 inches backspacing.

I wouldn't run 2.5" backspacing with tires this large. It's just too much leverage on knuckle parts and your scrub radius will be rediculous. It works with smaller tires, but I wouldn't do it with anything bigger than 38's or so, just my personal opinion.

The D60 stops have enough adjustment that you can clear the springs and still have a relatively decent turning radius. It's not too big a deal.

i know i tend to think more left field than others, but has anyone considered movin the firewall some? thats what i was lookin into doing if i have contact issues. its just sheetmetal afterall.

 

i know i tend to think more left field than others, but has anyone considered movin the firewall some? thats what i was lookin into doing if i have contact issues. its just sheetmetal afterall.

Too many things in the way for me to tackle it, but it could be done.

 

Another thing that would help a lot is to move the axle forward as far as you can (a la Big Norm), which will put you into the backs of the headlights and turn signals, but that's a much easier problem to deal with and at that lift may not even be a problem

When I get to the bigger tires I plan on cutting the turn signal portion and moving the turn signals into the grill. It's gonna look friggin' awsome! Not so sure about turning radius though.

Larston do you think 3" of backspacing with 44" boggers will be too much? I'm sure wheel spacers would put just as much pressure if not more on the spindles.

 

Norm and Lars: You both chose the shackle in the front setup because of the curvature and resulting piss-poor pinion angle/castor angle that you would have had if you had the shackle in the rear, correct?

Why couldn't you just weld new perches onto the axle to adjust the castor/pinion angle the same way it is done when installing a 14b rear? Doing this would allow a shackle in the rear setup. Am I missing some other HUGE glaring problem with doing this?

Any further updates on your stock rear spring SAS is welcome. I'm curious as to how well it is working for you since you've both had some more time on them.

 

Am I missing some other HUGE glaring problem with doing this?

Yes you are.

1-The spring perch is cast into the center housing on the drivers side.
2-Unlike a rear axle you can't just turn the housing to aquire a better pinion angle as it will screw up your steering geometry.

 

Exactly, your only options are to A - cut and reweld the tubes which is a major PITA, or B - Cut and turn the inner C's. This must be done to an exact degree or else you'll end up with more caster issues, possibly in the opposite direction. This is a reason why HP axles are favorable, you don't have such a PITA in regards to lifting and making the driveshaft work. But on the front you have this exact problem.

Did I mention cutting and turning the C's is a PITA too? I'll try to find a buddy's writeup on FTE...

EDIT: http://www.ford-trucks.com/user_gallery/displayalbum.php?&userid=113895&albumid=15356

That's the URL for the guy who's whole thread I was trying to find, but that's his gallery. A few of hte pictures show his having ground down the weld on his axle to expose the crack between the tube and the C which is PRESSED ON. He had to beat the piss out of it with dry ice packed in the tube and heat applied to the C and still had trouble with it. Basically gives you the idea. That's easier then cutting and rewelding your tubes, but still not fun. As said, you have to do this because you CAN'T turn the perches because A - the leaf spring mount is cast into the pumpkin, and B - you'll run into wheel caster issues and that's a whole nother bucket.

 

Gotcha, so it isin't so much that the axle couldn't have been repositioned correctly, even though it would be a huge PITA. The problem was more to do with the way the springs turned the axle during flex with a shackle in the rear, because of their curvature, making the pinon angle worse the further it drooped? So if 57" rears are to be used for a SAS, it'd be stupid not to go with shackle in the front, not to mention being a lot easier.

 

Phil, the problem is getting everything in place. You CAN build a large dropped crossmember for lowering the front mounting point of the spring (the spring hanger) then put the shackle on the back. This is actually a great way to do it. Get some 6" lift springs then drop the mount wherever you like. Ivan in the link I posted above has that on his truck as well. Some think it is a "cheap" way but it is plenty strong and optimal compared to other "ways" of getting the lift. Plus you don't need the trac bar this way.

 

But, after you drop the front mounting point 6ish"s, you'll end up with 10+"s of lift if you're using the stock 57" rears.

I'll probably end up using 57"s and copying norm/lars or using 52" chev's and copying dogonmut. I've got plenty of time to decide.