ZF Behind 400M??

BogginBrandon · Oct 4, 2007

Hello Broncoland, has anyone ever heard of swapping a ZF 5-speed behind a 351/400M engine? I know the bell housing pattern is the same, but I wasn't sure about the starter, flywheel, clutch interchange. Anyone know anything?

crowebait · Oct 5, 2007

tried this with my 351m (which is the same as the 400 basiclly) the prblem i had was the input shaft on the zf for a 460 will just barely reach the clutch plate and the pilot bearing, this is because the 460 crank sticks out of the back of the block farther than the 351m/400, also the zf bellhousing will most likely hit the firewall unless you do some trimming. the zf i was going to use was out of a 95 f250, also this tranny has a 1 1/4" input shaft instead of the 1 1/16" shaft, so you will have to mix and match the clutch plate and such. you will also have to notch the t/case flange on the tranny for the shifting fork on the 205 t/case if thats what you are going to use.

I aborted this project on my bronco because i didn't like the way the input shaft was engaging the clutch plate and pilot bearing on the M block.

I might try puting it behind my 460 when i do the swap though

hope this helps

bronco_kid78 · Oct 5, 2007

i've never heard of a ZF tranny. are they as strong as C6? If I build the EFI 460 I will more than likely fry my tranny and d44.

Ranger429 · Oct 6, 2007

A ZF is a manual tranny Bronco Kid.

Big Wurmb · Oct 5, 2007

......ummm, no. ford put the C6 behind 460's, why would it fry yours? as for the D44-I really dout it.

I think the only reason I would consider this swap is for economy..

This swap was done on am EB: http://home.austin.rr.com/broncenstein/Budget ZF swap.htm

rsalter66 · Oct 6, 2007

That Kicks Ass!!Thanks for the info! :chili:

Hey can you puy one behind a windsor??

crowebait · Oct 5, 2007

that was an older small body bronco swap and they used the 2wd version of the tranny, don't think you would want to do this with a full size bronco with the married t/case, and the zf is a manual 5spd not an automatic.

Big Wurmb · Oct 6, 2007

you know? kinda looks like he made it 4wd too me! :goodfinge and if im not mistaken the EB also had a married tcase and tranny.

crowebait said:
and the zf is a manual 5spd not an automatic.

and to whom is this aimed at?

and doin this to a fullsull why not? just need a engine to mount up too.

BogginBrandon · Oct 6, 2007

Thanks for the info guys I guess I will stick with my T-18. I am planning on backing it with a NP271 until i can afford a doubler That will give me just a little extra edge on gear ratio. The only reason I was considering it would be for the OD on the highway, but most likely this truck isn't going to see much highway duty.

jopes · Oct 7, 2007

zf trannies are awesome!

bigbadblue80 · Oct 7, 2007

so is theire a manual tranny for a 400m or one that would work?

Ranger429 · Oct 7, 2007

Yeah, T-18 or NP 435.

bigbadblue80 · Oct 8, 2007

so whats wrong with them why wont they work? are they not that strong or strong enough for a fsb? what did they come in? are they good trannys? lol sorry for asking so many Q's its just that i want a manual tranny in my bronco bad

jopes · Oct 8, 2007

1/2 tons all the way up to 1 tons and bigger.

they are plenty strong.

92Custom · Oct 10, 2011

I *hate* reviving an old thread.

So what's the consensus, then? Can you run a ZF-5 behind a 400 reliably without issues or not?

JfB_93 · Oct 10, 2011

the input shaft on the zf for a 460 will just barely reach the clutch plate and the pilot bearing, this is because the 460 crank sticks out of the back of the block farther than the 351m/400, also the zf bellhousing will most likely hit the firewall unless you do some trimming. the zf i was going to use was out of a 95 f250, also this tranny has a 1 1/4" input shaft instead of the 1 1/16" shaft, so you will have to mix and match the clutch plate and such. you will also have to notch the t/case flange on the tranny for the shifting fork on the 205 t/case if thats what you are going to use.

Don't think so.

raleigh · Oct 10, 2011

92Custom · Oct 10, 2011

Saw that, but then I also saw a lot of praise for the ZF5 itself. Anyone know if there'd be any way to make it work?

raleigh · Oct 10, 2011

Yup, put in a 460 at the same time!

Alvin in AZ · Oct 10, 2011

Yeah, that's one way to fix the 351m/400 crank to ZF input shaft problem.

There doesn't seem to be a part that a guy can just point to from Jegs or
Summit because I've never seen that done, ever. {oops, are there longer
ZF input shafts for sale tho?}

But guys are running them somehow.

A couple of them were/are running
with just a tiny bit of shaft inside the hole tho! :/ (yeah I know, but if you
don't like it, you reword it)

But there's plenty of space between the end of the crank and the center hub
of the clutch disc to make something that'd fix it tho.

I'm wondering if a tube couldn't be machined to fit the crank and used as an
extension?

It'd hold a 17mm i.d. needle bearing like...

http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/Kit8628

Or maybe a 11/16" i.d. needle bearing, since that's what Ford uses, but inch
bearings are harder to find. I was told caged-needle-bearings like those are
either inch inside-and-out or metric inside-and-out and not mixed-up like the
way you can get ball bearings.

Ok, I'm not saying any of that's a good idea.

But what idea you got figured out that's better?

Let's hear it 'em.

Alvin in AZ

7LBRONCO · Oct 10, 2011

Why not add a 1/2" spacer to the back of the crank flange, with the pilot bushing pressed into that??????

Rusty Shackelford · Oct 11, 2011

wouldnt a conversion pilot bearing and flywheel do it? gotta be a market for it.

jzeke · Oct 11, 2011

I would call around to the main conversion companies and see what they can do. Just because it is NOT listed does not mean it cannot be done. I learned this on an NV4500 in a FSB. Its not exactly plug and play, but in comparison to other conversions it is pretty straight forward.

ZF Behind 400M??

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