My F150 has a 6R80 and its the true definition of a slushbox

Id much rather have the ZF5

 

I’ve seen zf’s blow out from stock 300i6’s them 6r80’s get beat on in high horse power mustangs, you do the math

 

It is a slush box because the average consumer doesn't want to feel it shift. It was designed to decrease the amount of rpm drop between shifts and feel seamless. With some good programming those shifts can be firmed up. The mechanicals are rugged. I would even say as or more rugged than the C6 transmission. The factory torque rating is actually more than the ZF5.

 

oh its far superior to the C6 but ill take the ZF5 all day long, and if the 6R80 dies the F150 is getting a T56

 

You put up how much the transmission plus a rebuild would cost, but failed to give an estimated total after parts. With all of the things you listed above, I would say the final cost after install would push $5-6000, right? With the rebuilds I've read about beefing up an E4OD, plus the fact that a C6 is pretty stout, that seems a little steep to me. However, the fact remains that it's your truck, your money, so who am I to say. I just think it's a lot of money to spend when there are very good options for transmissions that are

1. from the generation of the Bronco and
2. are able to do a lot more after a rebuild than they did stock. Just my 2¢

 

@hms79 I can't disagree with you it is an expensive swap. Going full tilt, a package deal minus the transfer case adapter cost around $6700.

The average guy could get by spending a lot less using a low mileage salvage yard trans and torque converter, just do fluid and filter change.
Last time I checked my local LKQ pull a part a transmission and converter was $300.

Biggest cost after that would be the controller with wiring. $1500

The big advantages over a c6 and e4od is the steeper gearing makes for better crawling without having to go big with axle ratio. The double overdrive reduces engine rpm at highway speed saving fuel and engine wear. I haven't run the numbers lately but with 35 inch tires and 3.73 or 4.10 gears you should be able run 65-70 at less than 2500 rpm. The 6r80 offers benefits at both ends.

Don't take me wrong there is nothing wrong with a c6 or zf5 can't speak about e4od as I have never used one. I was just offering an alternative to those that wanted a little something different and doesn't mind scrounging parts.

 

Sure, there is nothing wrong with options, and the newer transmission are probably starting to show up with more frequency in JY's around. My concern was the overall cost, but that's just me. Not everyone will feel that way. Also, I'm a stock guy, just how I've always been. The only trans I ever thought about was the ZF5, aside from what was already in there. I've had a C6, an E4OD and a M5OD, C6 was the best, IMO.

 

I've been seriously considering this upgrade from my E4OD. What would be the pros/cons of using the transfer case that comes with a 6R80 from a 4WD F-150?

 

Pro is that you have a ready made complete assembly, mechanically makes swap less complicated.

Con and it may not even be one. Transfer case is electrically controlled. Would need to research how to control it. It maybe something simple as just using the factory switch and wiring. You might have to come up with some type of mount to support the transfer case.

I am not sure what transfer case they are using now or even how strong it is. It must be fairly strong considering some of the horsepower they are making. I would think it would be fine with a basically stock motor Bronco.

 

Performance Automatic sells both the adapter (block plate) and a torque converter adapter (p/n 732-PA68509) to enable using the stock converter from the F-150 6R80. This would safe some money, although the total cost still adds up pretty quick.

 

Thanks I had been looking to see if an adapter for the torque converter was necessary considering the thickness of the block adapter pieces. PA68509 are extenders that screw on to the torque converter studs to extend the length and also includes a spacer for the pilot. Without this, the torque converter will not engage into the transmission.

The block adapter is not really a plate but machined pieces that adapter the block with a blockplate to the transmission bellhousing. This allows keeping proper alignment with the starter and flexplate while adapting the to the transmission bellhousing.

Basically you are moving everything from the block plate and flex plate back 1/2 inch. This is because of the adapter thickness.

Small Block Block Plate:

Big Block Block Plate:

Notice two set of starter mounting holes on the plates. This allows use of either an automatic or manual starter.

Small Block Adapter Big Block is similar with different shape to fit block bolt pattern.

Torque Converter Adapter I know this one is for Small Block but not for sure if it is also used on Big Block

 

Yo HB,
I'll move this vg thread to 1980-'96 Bronco Tech section. It will fit in well there.
Al

 

Thanks!

I have been researching shifter options this week. Great news for those with AODE or 4R70w transmissions. You can use your existing shifters. You will need a different transmission shitlever and a stop bracket to prevent the shifter from going past PRND2, with "2" becoming "S" mode or manual.
https://pbhperformance.com/shop/pbh-6r80-shift-lever/

Here is the stop bracket Mustang guys use but don't think it will work for our purpose.
https://pbhperformance.com/shop/pbh-6r80-shifter-stop-bracket/

 

I sure like the 6R80 idea

 

If you like that idea just hold on to your hat. 2019 looks like a standalone controller will exist for the 10R80. The controller is in beta right now and has been in several test vehicles. I haven't gotten dimensions on overall length difference between the 6R80 and the 10R80 but it will still bolt to engine using same adapters.


I did find out that for easiest conversion for a Bronco, is to use a transmission from a 4wd as the output shaft is different length from 2wd and 4wd. A 2wd transmission can be converted but requires extra parts besides the output shaft.
Here is a parts break down of the 6R80:

https://www.wittrans.com/parts?type=6R80

Some facts and ratio chart for the 10R80:
Ford 10R80 10 Speed Transmission Specs & Ratios

 

Came across this video while researching the 10R80 swap. Distance from front of bellhousing to the trans mount appears to be the same. Now in the 2wd version of the trans he mentions the drive flange is 1 inch further back with the 10R80 than the 6R80. Do not know if this will mean the transfer case is 1 inch further back.

Also there appears to be two different starters on the later 10R80. The standard Mod motor uses a 3 bolt flange the later trucks use a 2 bolt pattern with a larger starter gear. The block plate is different with the 2 bolt pattern and is one piece with no inspection cover. To install the converter bolts there is a rubber access plug on the Mod Motor. The trans adapter kits will NOT work with 10R80 that has the 2 bolt starter pattern as there is no way to install converter bolts.

 

With the Performance Automatic adapter to a SBF, neither of the 6R80 or 10R80 starter positions are usable. The SBF starter attaches to the adapter and the bellhousing has to be 'trimmed' away to clear as necessary.

I'm guessing the block plate could be modified to permit torque converter bolt access.

 

Correct! Performance Automatic does offer the correct block plate for SBF and BBF that uses the C4 C6 type starter. Also it includes a removable inspection plate so installing torque converter should be no trouble. Since bellhousing pattern is the same for 6R80 and 10R80 the 10R80 should bolt up with the correct bolts.

One problem that would have to be addressed is the 0.100 inch difference in torque converter position. Maybe PA will offer a different spacer for 10R80.

So if you use the PA adapter you can use whatever 10R80 you can find. No worries over which starter it used or blockplate. I will try to call PA next week if they are open after Christmas, to discuss flex plate solutions for 10R80. Maybe need to talk to Circle D about torque converter options for 10R80.

If you find a 10R80 in your local LKQ pull a part it will probably be very low miles. All it would need is a fluid and filter change. Very good option considering 6R80 and 10R80 will cost you the same.

 

:scratchhe Nice! Wonder if a SN 95 auto PCM would work for a brain? I am not an auto dude so excuse my ignorance?

 

No sorry an SN95 PCM will not control the 6R80 or 10R80. You should see the hoops the late model Mustang guys have to jump thru to convert from stick to auto. Instrument cluster, ABS module, power brake booster, shifter. A whole list of items they have to replace or reprogram because everything is networked over CAN Bus. To reprogram the ECUs they have to have a vin # of an automatic car just like theirs. The swap is very popular with them too. When you compare stock manual vs stock auto the auto can handle more power.

But guess what their are more wrecked automatic Trucks than Mustangs in the salvage yard. I don't know the ratio of 2wd vs 4wd trucks but imagine 2wd to be more common. Mustang guys would rather not have a truck transmission as the shifter cable attaches different. Truck comes from the rear of trans towards the front Mustangs come from the front to the rear. The cable brackets are different and Mustang trans does not have the bosses on the side of the case for truck cable. If you converted a Mustang trans to 4wd you would need a cable bracket from Performance Automatic that bolts to the pan rail.

 

Whatever became of this?

 

Nothing as of yet. Haven't given up on the idea. Waiting to see if the 10R80 controller comes out soon. It is still in beta testing.

With buying and clearing 20 acres, building a house and shop there hasn't been much time for anything else.

 

What advantages does the 10r80 have over the 6? Besides the extra dears.

 

The idea is the 10 speeds trans keeps it in the best RPM/TQ curve

 

10R80 also has a lower RPM in tenth gear than the 6R80.
So you get that theoretical increase in gas mileage if you spend all day on the freeway.
I think 10R80 might also handle a bit more torque/HP if I remember correct?
And another bonus is you can find super low-mileage 10R80 all day long since it's still new.
While 6R80 used tranny's are going to be harder to find with low mileage.

This is on my to-do list for next year.
Hopefully the controller will be out of beta by then and there will be more swap accessory options.

 

Sure would be nice to see a trans control in the Pimp,Stinger,Megasquirt stuff. The new 60pin has a controller built in
Stinger PIMP | MegaSquirt

Maybe the new system will have it soon
https://www.diyautotune.com/product/99-04-v8-mustang-gt/

 

I do not think you will see any transmission updates to those two devices as they are designed to be PnP with certain years that did not come standard with the 6R or 10R transmissions. It would take some serious hardware modifications that would consume more than is capable with a 60 pin device.

The MicroSquirt is typically used to do transmission control. As far as I know it will not do standalone, but it might. Do some research on it. It does work by using CAN Bus to talk to other PNP and DIY efi systems of the Megasquirt variety. I do not know if any firmware development is on going to upgrade the Microsquirt to handle the 6R or 10R.

I have shied myself away from Megasquirt products especially the DIY or AMP brand products. All I will say is that I do not like their so called business practices and their public display of animosity towards anyone that complains about their products. I will not go into further details for fear of being sued.

There are other systems out there that are just as good or better. Yes more money but more features. While not being directly plug in play they do offer conversion harnesses using factory sensors.

I will say if you want to stay the factory engine control route then use the Stinger PIMP it is basically the same as DIY PnP. Use either the Bauman or the Performance Automatic controller with the Stinger Pimp. I have Performance automatic come with either controller. The Performance Automatic controller you see in most pictures and videos is from PCS controls. and does not come with any kind of display.

I recently saw a picture of someone that 3D printed or vacuum formed from ABS plastic a dash insert that surface mounted the controller to the back of the insert. It was not on a Bronco, but was very clean install.

I read this morning the the HP record for the 10R80 was recently broken at over 1400HP!! Details on the specific trans mods were not given. It was a marketing and publicity hype piece will little details. Midnight Performance supplied the modified transmission. I suspect that billet internal parts from Brett LaSalle or from Australia were used.

While I doubt anyone with a Bronco would consider these HP levels it goes to prove how rugged these transmissions are. You are talking C6 HP levels with features that can optimise your system.

Imagine being able to run taller tires and steeper gears while not giving up crawl ratio or highway RPM. The 6R and 10R offer benefits are both ends of the vehicle speed.

 

Not really a section for this so chose to post this in Nobbie section. If mods think it belongs elsewhere please move it.

I have been considering swapping to a 6R80 6 Speed automatic transmission. Currently my plan was to use a ZF5-47 manual transmission, but behind the modified Big Block Ford I think it's life would be short lived. Besides my old legs and hips just can't handle city driving with a manual transmission. The 6R80 has a double overdrive so engine rpm can be lower at highway cruise speed. Hoping for something around 2000-2500 rpm. First gear is lower than what the C6 or AOD would offer and about the same as the ZF5. The 6R80 torque converter is a lockup style and aftermarket convertors are available with multi-disc lock up.
Gear Ratios:
1st 4.171
2nd 2.344
3rd 1.521
4th 1.143
5th 0.867
6th 0.691
Rev 3.403

With those gear ratios it should certainly offer a wide variety of driving improvements. Do you happen to have the 10 speed ratios too?

tim