D44 TTB Tie Rod End (TRE) flip

landshark99 · May 16, 2010

I flipped the TRE's to the top of the knuckles today, took a few pics to document the work

I got tired of bending, breaking and knocking the steering to hell, here's a pic of the carnage..

What you will need is a 7 Degree reamer, they are not cheap, but I bartered one for some primo beer (which I tried last night SWAT, not bad not bad!)

You will also need a 1/2 drill, some grease, and to do it right you will also need the conversion sleeves, i used these:

from http://broncograveyard.com/bronco/i-12775-f150-knuckle-conversion-sleeves.html

they worked perfectly.

Here's the reamer and the sleeves.

Anyway i started by pulling the bronco into my 90 year old garage its small.. but its a place to work!

And we are about to begin.

Passenger side before the operation

Drivers side before operation

Drivers side TRE removed

Passenger Side TRE removal

Slight tap with a rubber mallet or steel hammer will knock the TRE off

And its off

Now i have to remove the bent sleeve.. really screwed up the steering on chinaman last weekend.. you can see how i forced the sleeves so that i could drive back to Denver.. basically i re-threaded the sleeves by screwing on the TRE's...

You can see pretty much everything on the sleeve is bent.

Before i began I tested the reamer out on the stock setting on the knuckle

Then i checked it on top of the knuckle, quite a difference..

I also test fitted the sleeve on the reamer to make sure it fit at the proper degree, only had one shot at this and wanted to be sure!

This is as far as the sleeve would go in on the stock location.

Here is the sleeve as it will sit on the TRE.

Used a good amount of grease as suggested by SWAT. This is before i started reaming.

I went slow and steady checking frequently so that i didn't over ream the knuckle.

Perfect fit! The sleeve is installed on the passenger side. Its pretty flush I didn't get the hole perfect but it was close!

Passenger TRE installed

You can see in this picture how i was a bit off on the drivers side.. i didn't realize it until i was over halfway, i figured it was ok and it turned out fine i didn't want to screw up the hole any more then i had to.

Sleeve installed on the drivers side. Again i was a bit off on this side.. however it fit very well in the end.

Everything is installed, looking good!

Tires are on.. pretty flat. everything is tight

Anyway, this was my first write up so I hope there was enough info most of you, its very simple and straight forward, i know this has been done before but I know i like seeing as many examples as i can when i do something to the bronco.

This was pretty painless overall, again a big thanks to SWAT for the reamer worked well and his suggestion on using grease seemed to work quite well. Had I not taken pics and done a few other things along the way I think that this would have only taken an hour or so. I followed advice and went slow and checked the fit of the sleeves often.

Now i will need to keep checking the toe.. its not very easy with a TTB to get this thing aligned.. it changes hourly!

Redwagon · May 16, 2010

Uh, if your going to make the mistake of tapping on the top of the tierod, at least put the nut back on so you dont damage the thread.

landshark99 · May 16, 2010

I didn't think the rubber mallet would damage my TRE, i think i would have bigger problems if so!

However point taken. Thanks for the advice!

Dustball · May 22, 2010

People will ask- "why use the sleeves?" Reason being- if you decide to simply use the reamer to cut a new taper on the top side enough to get the tie rod end on, your hole will be an hourglass shape and could possibly wallow out over time. The sleeves allow you to cut a full taper all the way through and bring it back down to size to fit the OEM tie rod end.

PRADO · May 23, 2010

Whats the of benifits of doing a modification like this? even if you have a 4 inch lift is it still a good mod? sorry for the stupid question but im a new bronco owner and know little about them besides that fact they are great!

landshark99 · May 24, 2010

As was stated, it moves them up so they clear obstacles a bit better, Iam also hoping it makes them a bit stronger on the trail, and they won't bend so easily... in addition it seems to have improved my steering a bit, but might be due to to the new TRE's or a better alignment...

PRADO said:
where do u get the sleeves from?

You can get the sleeves from Jeffs Bronco Graveyard

http://broncograveyard.com/bronco/i-12775-f150-knuckle-conversion-sleeves.html

and thanks for the write up shado, even as simple as it was I try to look at as many walk throughs as possible

Dustball · May 23, 2010

Your tie rods will be less prone to bending as they are closer to parallel with each other than if you left them in the stock position.

PRADO · May 23, 2010

where do u get the sleeves from?

imlikeojnow · May 23, 2010

does this eleminate the need for a drop pitman arm with lift kit then since you are essentially raising the rods 3 inches?

Shadofax · May 23, 2010

4" lift, yes
6" probably still a good idea to use the drop arm

Swat · May 24, 2010

I believe the tie rod and drag link won't bend as easy with less angle on them by placing them over the knuckles. They also end-up at least 3" above stock which helps get them up and out of the way. I initially ran a drop pitman arm with 4" TTB lift but with this knuckle-under set-up went back to a stock, flat, pitman arm. Then I went to 6" coils and needed the drop pitman arm. I also think if you have less than 4"s of lift that this mod won't work.

I currently run a stock, flat pitman arm with DOM, Chevy TRE's, Mid-Steer, SAS, and hydro assist. I placed the tie rod under the steering arms on my 609. I tried them on top and the tie rod would hit the frame at full compression, so I reamed the steering arms from the bottom for both the drag link and tie rod. With steering arms you can eliminate the TRE with the hole in it and drag link end that fits that hole. I only run two types of TRE's now. The Chevy TRE's are bigger so they won't fit a stock hole without reaming. They are stronger but have the same degree taper.

I eliminated these:

This is what I got:

Swat · May 24, 2010

Landshark, Chris, I an curious if the tapered sleeves are the same size as the larger Chevy TRE? If so one could knock out the tapered sleeve and upgrade to DOM and Chevy TRE's.

landshark99 · May 24, 2010

I'm not sure, however I think instead of putting more money into the TTB I have decided to go for a SAS.. i have located a D44 housing with radius arms for $50 and might pick it up and start building/refreshing it.

I do like the TTB ride, since it does see quite a bit of on road driving, however it has been a continuous nightmare aligning the front end.. it changes on a whim, and it's been pretty much a pain in the ass. I will run it for the summer and maybe toward the end of summer will have the axle built up ready to be swapped.

In addition I have been flip flopping on swapping the rear axle out as well, I have a spare 8.8 sitting in the garage I'm going to truss and build up at the same time as the front, but like i said iam going to run the summer as is.

On another note JBG and the steering arm manufacturer warrantied my steering, and they have sent replacements. So i guess I now have 2 new sets and the old set i took off.. good enough for backups

TravisITGuy · May 24, 2010

dom and chevy tre's on a TTB would be great.

popsbeast · Sep 16, 2010

Awesome, How to... I think I may try this on my 95 I get a terrible bump steer and wander from the 6" lift this should bring the rods closer to parallel and reduce the bump steer, I think the steering box is the issue with wander, very sloppy input shaft with no output to the pitman arm. Tried adjusting it but no change. This is good stuff thanks.

fmf300ex · Sep 19, 2010

Been thinking about doing this since I've already bent two drag links. Do you think if this was done and the rods just turned 180degrees to be pointed down, that it would be OK without resetting the toe? Or would bringing the linkage up higher throw it out? I've done alignments on cars/trucks on an actual alignment rack, but always just paid to have this thing done so I don't have to deal with it... I've heard about just tape measure and the 1/8" toed in method but have never attempted it

Dustball · Sep 19, 2010

Yes, the tie rod flip will change the toe setting.

landshark99 · Sep 20, 2010

I believe they are Spider Trax 1" wheel spacers. I only have them on the front as I had a slight rub on my radius arms and wanted my turning radius to be as tight as possible. They have worked great, no problems and I have wheeled them quite a bit.

I will be selling them very soon if your interested, in the process of doing my SAS.. probably a month or less until I can pull them off.

Mudhound · Sep 20, 2010

Going by the dark blue coloring, I would say that the spacers are from Spidertrax.

86caprirs · Sep 20, 2010

Won't you need the spacers for your SAS?

Thanks for the pics on the TTB tie rod flip.

Redwagon · Sep 20, 2010

depends on the tie rods you use, the chevy tie rods (what most guys use) have a bigger shank so you have to ream more metal, so you dont end up with the hour glass shape.

landshark99 · Sep 20, 2010

Going 8 lug, so won't fit.. plus I will be getting the correct backspacing on my new rims to take care of any rub.

seawalkersee · Dec 23, 2011

The chevrolet TRE's are larger and if you ream the knuckle, it goes all the way down. I do not have the part numbers for them but there are some that have. If you search, they have the PNs for them and the size of DOM.

Not sure about the bottom of the ends if the sleeves are used. There are some that have added a JB weld type and gone from there. If you use the sleeves, there should be enough material to not worry.

SWS

thin blue line · Feb 7, 2012

i know this is old,and i know this has probabley been gone over before, but couldnt find it. do i need the drop pit man arm if i use the 5.5 dever springs. i have a 4" rancho kit now with the radius arms. i got a great deal on the devers but i also want to change the tre flip to help with the angles. any help would be great.

landshark99 · Feb 7, 2012

If you put the 5.5 deavers on then yes you are going to want to have the drop pitman arm even when doing the flip. When you go to knuckle under the drop pitman arm will help to flatten your steering and should improve your geometry, control and handling. In addition it will help your steering a bit when flexed out.

Before with drop pitman arm:

After flip with drop pitman arm:

the closer you can get your TREs flat the better for control and overall steering. you might be able to get away without a drop arm but if your doing this you might as well get one and do it right.

helirich · Feb 7, 2012

While I totally agree that the flip is a good idea (I did it), those pics are not really fair comparison. The TTB will be more "sprung" when supported on jack stands then tires. (Look at the distance between the bump stop and the axle.)

TravisITGuy · Apr 25, 2012

is JBG the only source for the sleeves to perform this flip? its crazy how they want to charge me $10 for shipping on such a small part.

landshark99 · Apr 25, 2012

they are probably the cheapest unless you can find some off brand website.

Most places charge double the price for just one.. and then charge you shipping on top of that.

TravisITGuy · Apr 28, 2012

Landshark, do you can the tierods be reused if they are still in good condition. my drag link is a bit loose and will be replaced. any recommendations on a source for a good quality inexpensive drag link.

"Bronco" John Galt · Apr 28, 2012

Glad this thread was brought back up. I think I will do this when I put my C&T on. Did you ever sell those spacers, Landshark?

As for the drag links, I just replaced mine a few days ago. The passenger side (long) drag link was @ $66.00 at O'reilly and the driver side (short) was @ $19.00 at O'reilly.

http://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/showthread.php?t=190256&page=28

Posts #550 thru #559 have pics.

TravisITGuy · May 24, 2012

just got my bronco back from the shop last night. got my tierods flipped, new drag links installed an a new Red-Head gear box. steering is night and day difference. Love it. This mod should be high on everyone's list.

thin blue line · Jun 5, 2012

i didnt use the sleeves on mine, think i will have any problems????

landshark99 · Jun 5, 2012

probably not, i know quite a few people here who didn't use the sleeves and haven't had any problems.

Saltlife · Feb 11, 2013

landshark99 said:
You will also need a 1/2 drill, some grease, and to do it right you will also need the conversion sleeves, i used these:

from http://broncograveyard.com/bronco/i-12775-f150-knuckle-conversion-sleeves.html

they worked perfectly.

Here's the reamer and the sleeves.

Hate to bring back this thread but I will be flipping my TREs soon and using this write-up.

Question I have is does anyone else sell these sleves? From Bronco graveyard they want $28.08 shipped. Thats $10.08 in shipping for these little things. :shocked

landshark99 · Feb 11, 2013

maybe call and ask them if they are willing to drop them in a USPS envelope?

Kingfish999 · Feb 11, 2013

try callnig them. theres another place that sells them but i forgot what its called. also i htink ruffstuff or somewhere has a differenv version of these that only requires a 7/8" drill bit and not the reamer.

btw if anybody needs to barrow the reamer i have one. as long as you pay shipping and dont completly fawk it up. done 3 trucks myelf with it and had numerous other barrow it already. still works fine

D44 TTB Tie Rod End (TRE) flip

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